View Full Version : State of the Ralliart Address
NFSLancerRA
05-25-2011, 08:04 PM
So, I have been doing a lot of research surrounding the Ralliart over the past several months. I have looked over the braking system, the transmission, and I have plans to buy a new engine as well.
Here is what I have discovered:
The transmission service (30k miles) is something that people should definitely be doing themselves. I will be doing mine over the weekend. The flush that the dealer does does not require any special tools or know-how. I did the service today. There are a total of 4 drain plugs on the bottom of the transmission. When you pull all of them, about 6 liters of fluid should come out. The refill plug is on top of the transmission next to the shifter cable (under the air-box). Just add the new fluid there (making sure to add in as much as came out). Make sure to tighten the plugs in the bottom before adding fluid to the top. Start the car after tightening everything back up and run through the gears twice. Then, you are good to go. It is pretty easy.
People need to beware of the issues associated with the Ultimate Racing fuel-pump kit for the Walboro 255. There have been many instances of problems that have gone unnoticed with this kit. It deletes the sump that allows the stock pump to supply fuel constantly to the fuel rail. Without this sump, it becomes VERY difficult to achieve a solid tune that carries over from 3rd into 4th gear. One gear will be dead nuts on and the next one might be lean at tip-in. If you use this kit, make sure that your tuner is aware of this issue or buy a larger pump (perhaps Aeromotive or D-works).
It appears that tephra is working on the TCU at COBB (or so I have been told). I plan to buy a TCU and have it sent off to be looked at, as well.
There has been significant progress made on the transmission over the past two weeks. There are a couple of things that need to be worked on in the future, but this should be a non-issue very soon (next couple of months). The solenoids, filter, clutches, seals, and fluid are all things which I have looked at, and a parts list is being generated as we speak for these things. The fluid and clutches are almost done. I have a set of Kevlar clutches going on sale soon that should make many people happy. They should be able to hold 500 hp and will cost a fraction of what the other clutches on the market cost.
The next step is the motor. It doesn't appear to be quite as strong as the Evo X variant. Stay tuned for that.
Exyia
05-25-2011, 10:36 PM
The next step is the motor. It doesn't appear to be quite as strong as the Evo X variant. Stay tuned for that.
too tired tonight to comment on the other things, but I remember talking with Kozmic about this and he did say something was different/weaker in the RA 4b11t, but it was some component that really wasn't an issue - as in you should be building your block anyway before this part goes or causes problems. sorry I can't remember what the exact part was, too tired :p
I'm going to meet up with him tomorrow to solve a 2011 rom problem that's been going unnoticed for quite some time now, and I'll ask again
I've heard the crank is different. I dont usually believe everything I hear.
NFSLancerRA
05-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I've heard the crank is different. I dont usually believe everything I hear.
The crank appears to be different and the rod hardware looks like it is different, as well. Both of those things will need to be changed before really pushing this motor. There are different head-gaskets in the Evo X from what I hear, as well.
razorlab
05-26-2011, 10:46 AM
This thread interests me... :)
It would be nice to get actual real data of the internals being different instead of "I think they are different" though. :)
NFSLancerRA
05-26-2011, 11:08 AM
This thread interests me... :)
It would be nice to get actual real data of the internals being different instead of "I think they are different" though. :)
The only thing holding research back is the cost. The transmission has been the largest source of problems, thus far. That is being dealt with. I have a "Top Secret" fluid in my transmission now (which will be available soon). It shifts much more smoothly. The difference is astonishing.
There is actually a pretty elegant little test to determine what (if anything) is different. I just thought about that.
NFSLancerRA
05-26-2011, 11:16 AM
This makes me wonder what I could get for the RAD in my car and if it would be worth it to trade that for a BBX-lite.
Exyia
05-26-2011, 04:31 PM
This thread interests me... :)
It would be nice to get actual real data of the internals being different instead of "I think they are different" though. :)
kozmic sounded like he 100% knew from experience when they were swapping out the Ralliart block into an SSP Evo MR. feel free to ask him (I'll try to remember when I meet with him sometime this week to fix a 2011 related CEL)
I just can't remember what that part was though blegh
and I'm an advocate of Evo X turbo's (either stock or BBX-lite, any of them). Not a fan of the CBRD RAD really. and people over-estimate the cost you can do Evo X turbo's for imo. it really isn't that much, but the gains and mod flexibility after the swap are way more than any RA-specific bolt-on.
NFSLancerRA
05-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Yeah, I went ahead and lined up a new manifold and all the necessary parts. I will be contacting Chad about a new BBX-Lite within the next few days. I just dropped off the clutch-packs today, so hopefully everything will be done soon. I will mock-up the transmission cooler brackets tomorrow. That should take care of almost everything for the time being. I also need a new DP and HFC, I guess.
razorlab
05-27-2011, 02:48 PM
I just dropped off the clutch-packs today, so hopefully everything will be done soon.
This also interests me...
2muchboost
05-27-2011, 08:47 PM
subscribed! Definitely interested in these topics.
Exyia
05-27-2011, 10:17 PM
confirmed by kozmic (from his experience), the crank is the only difference between the RA and Evo 4b11t. no big deal
and I'm very lucky to have him and SSP opening a shop locally. just met with him tonight and have different plans for my RA now. I'll be skipping the stock X turbo for sure now - I get to drive them all the time at work, I'm already bored with them :o
zeRep85
05-28-2011, 08:59 AM
I'll be skipping the stock X turbo for sure now - I get to drive them all the time at work, I'm already bored with them :o
Cool story brah! heeh jk
This kozmic guy, who is he?
Lastly what are your plans for the turbo? if you dont mind me asking..
zeRep
NFSLancerRA
05-28-2011, 10:27 AM
This kozmic guy, who is he?
Tuner in Texas. I've heard of him before.
Exyia
05-28-2011, 11:15 AM
Cool story brah! heeh jk
This kozmic guy, who is he?
Lastly what are your plans for the turbo? if you dont mind me asking..
zeRep
he's a fabulous SST tuner here in Houston. He's tuned SSP's SST's, including their Evo X MR track car. he definitely knows his stuff
as for turbo, it will be a stock-frame for now. ETS t3 kit will have to wait :o
zeRep85
05-28-2011, 01:36 PM
he's a fabulous SST tuner here in Houston. He's tuned SSP's SST's, including their Evo X MR track car. he definitely knows his stuff
as for turbo, it will be a stock-frame for now. ETS t3 kit will have to wait :o
In that case....have him to sign up and chime in!
Jackal
05-28-2011, 07:18 PM
I want to know more about the crank and bottom end of the engine. Sorry until I see part numbers that can be verified as different between the Evo X and Ralliart I will assume they are exactly the same each and every part through out the engine until someone proves differently. I have heard stories going back to late 2008 but have yet to see proof that the Evo X has better parts.
NFSLancerRA
05-29-2011, 01:54 PM
The crank doesn't affect me. I have the utmost confidence in the tuners whom I trust with my car.
NFSLancerRA
06-28-2011, 03:01 PM
This thread needs updating. I have been hearing some good news on the TC-SST front. The TCU looks like it might be cracking. I will take a look at that more in-depth when I get back from vacation next week. If what I am hearing is accurate, the strengthening method being implemented is similar in design and execution to those already in place in automatic transmissions handling well over 500 HP. It is a simple little fix, but it should go a LONG way.
The clutch-packs are almost done. These things have changed directions several times. There is now a new player to that game, too. It appears that Exedy is going to be joining the market. That is interesting, because their prices are expected to be higher than SSP's. Either way, the Kevlar clutches that will be out shortly should work perfectly with the TCU tweak. The cooler is still on the table. There are a couple of different ideas that I have for that. One converts the existing transmission cooler into an oil cooler. It uses a setup with an additional cooler the size of a mini-radiator. That might be the only way to solve this problem for good.
The massive brake kit (using Z06 calipers) will be in production starting next week. I have seen them on the car, and the result is mind-boggling. There are not words for how big the entire setup is. I will start out with Hawk HPS pads. I anticipate those being just fine for any and all applications.
The fueling problems continue. I have been hearing great things about the COBB fuel pump kit, and that is what I may end up buying. Other than that, the Walboro has been a great little pump.
BravoZero
06-28-2011, 04:21 PM
This thread needs updating. I have been hearing some good news on the TC-SST front. The TCU looks like it might be cracking. I will take a look at that more in-depth when I get back from vacation next week. If what I am hearing is accurate, the strengthening method being implemented is similar in design and execution to those already in place in automatic transmissions handling well over 500 HP. It is a simple little fix, but it should go a LONG way.
The clutch-packs are almost done. These things have changed directions several times. There is now a new player to that game, too. It appears that Exedy is going to be joining the market. That is interesting, because their prices are expected to be higher than SSP's. Either way, the Kevlar clutches that will be out shortly should work perfectly with the TCU tweak. The cooler is still on the table. There are a couple of different ideas that I have for that. One converts the existing transmission cooler into an oil cooler. It uses a setup with an additional cooler the size of a mini-radiator. That might be the only way to solve this problem for good.
The massive brake kit (using Z06 calipers) will be in production starting next week. I have seen them on the car, and the result is mind-boggling. There are not words for how big the entire setup is. I will start out with Hawk HPS pads. I anticipate those being just fine for any and all applications.
The fueling problems continue. I have been hearing great things about the COBB fuel pump kit, and that is what I may end up buying. Other than that, the Walboro has been a great little pump.
Very nice update. Can't wait to see these in action.
Exyia
06-28-2011, 04:51 PM
your old black stig profile pic and the new one on evom still throws me off every now and then lol
Great to hear the update NFS. Let's not forget other things that add-up to the current "State of the Ralliart", and lets not degrade this thread to an "SST progression" thread :o
Here's my contribution to this "knowledge-base" themed thread:
1. The OEM battery is a big obstacle. There are no really well-flowing intakes that keep the stock battery location/size. The combination of a long airflow route, direction, bottlenecks, and heatsoak make every RA specific intake out there nearly useless vs price. Yes, I'm aware of the AEM RA intake, but it has yet to be released, so this current "state" still stands.
Not only does the battery cause intake performance issues, it causes fitment issues when looking for Evo X compatibility (intake, some LICPs, turbo->intake). Most obvious example is when owners opt for an Evo X turbo swap. Fixing the problem with the battery looks like it will open a lot of doors.
2. The whole RA intercooler system is garbage. The UICP is an expanding hose, the FMIC gets heatsoaked too easily, and the LICP has stupidly designed dimples near the inlet.
The UICP flexing hose flexes under high boost pressure, causing a loss in throttle response as air expands while passing through
The FMIC is a joke of an intercooler. Bryan@GST has great logs here: http://norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_tunes/me/RA_SB_032810/040310/2nd_through_4th_intakeTemps_040310.gif
The RA OEM LICP is a HUGE restriction. After upgrading to an ETS LICP, I will confidently say that the LICP makes a bigger difference than upgrading the UICP hose. Upgrading the LICP to a wider hard-pipe that doesn't have the OEM "dents" makes spool-up much more aggressive.
Regardless, for how cheaply a used Evo X intercooler set can be bought, and how relatively easy it is to DIY install, a full intercooler system upgrade should be something EVERY Ralliart owner does. Upgrade the whole system, including LICP
3. Tires - just upgrade them. This has been beaten to death I don't feel like typing anything about it. CL your OEM's and upgrade
That's all I can think to add for now. Here's one others can add to:
4. The OEM brake system is pretty pitiful. NFS offers a great and affordable option for a caliper/rotor/line upgrade. But with the different options offered from this BBK, what's the breakdown of what is necessary depending on needs? What kind of use/owner justifies a front-only upgrade? Caliper size? Rotor type (oem evo x or aftermarket)? SS lines? etc? Feel free to add to this bullet
NFSLancerRA
06-28-2011, 07:14 PM
The Basic Upgrade is basically just a simple C5/C6 base model caliper fitted to the front rotors. For most people, this will be all that you will ever need. It has curb appeal. It will allow the average weekend warrior full reign of the track without a problem, ever. I anticipate that, with the right pad combination, this upgrade should be suited to the needs of most Ralliart owners. There is no fade, what so ever, with the big 14" rotors. They are also GREAT for spirited road driving. It is a pretty nice little package. The rears will never need upgrading with that setup. I would recommend, however, buying a matching set of upgraded rotors and pads to complete the upgrade. After that, you can call is a day. Plus, you will fool a number of people into thinking that you car is in fact a real honest to god Evo (I have to admit, that is kind of fun some of the time).
The 6/4 piston setup is insane. They were originally designed to stop a 200+ MPH car. This is something that I would put on a dedicated track car. You will be able to brake REALLY late with this setup. If you have the power to match, which is slowly being worked out, this will match performance numbers on anything out there. There is even a full ceramic option for that kit. That bumps the price up significantly, though. Currently, in my mind, that is for someone REALLY serious about racing. The calipers themselves have to be seen to be believed. They are astonishingly big.
Let me put it to you this way: If you want a bonkers Ralliart, this will have to be on your list. Other companies dangle 8-piston upgrades and nonsense like that around. Every component in this kit is made to work perfectly with every other component in the kit. It can be tailored to the desires of any potential customer.
That being said, I think that the main market for this kit is going to be elsewhere.
NFSLancerRA
06-28-2011, 07:19 PM
Tires are a very important point. I have seen people spend some serious money on tires. I am very happy with my Nitto NT555 Extreme Performance tires. No slip, just grip. Plus, they do tend to last awhile. That is very good news, considering how expensive tires are. That would definitely be my recommendation.
When new owners do decide to upgrade the cooling system, do everything. Get both pipes, a good sized intercooler, and probably an intake to balance things out. With a good tune, you should be in a great place to start out with.
BravoZero
06-28-2011, 07:46 PM
My next mod will be new wheels with upgraded tires, these OEM Yoko's suck in anything but flat dry road. Plus, the 215mm tires are just a little too small for a turbocharged AWD platform IMO.
Also, most owners might not do anything but spring upgrades, but the difference in handling from just a basic set of springs like Eibach's or Swift's as opposed to the stock springs is definitely noticeable. If you are concerned with even the slightest bit of an increase in handling, at least go with a set of Swift's, due to the height the car still sits at which is more than enough for daily driving.
Tires are a very important point. I have seen people spend some serious money on tires. I am very happy with my Nitto NT555 Extreme Performance tires. No slip, just grip. Plus, they do tend to last awhile. That is very good news, considering how expensive tires are. That would definitely be my recommendation.
When new owners do decide to upgrade the cooling system, do everything. Get both pipes, a good sized intercooler, and probably an intake to balance things out. With a good tune, you should be in a great place to start out with.
^+1 Cooling to me should be the first on the list. I cant stress enough how much hotter turbo engine run vs N/A Engine.
I used to have Nankang (80% threads) in the front Sumitomo (20% threads) in the rear. Went to autox at Marina/air field during the rain. Couldnt turn to save my life, felt like FWD.
On my way back thru the mountains was scary... NOT ONE OF THOSE FUN SCARY. It would loose traction without warning. Understeer & more understeer.
Now with Nankang all the way around it is easier to manage.
I had gotten a set of hand me down Direzza Star spec awhile back from Autox Champ (Thanks Issac), it was bald. 10-20% thread left.
I drove it for about 3k miles... it was surprisingly grippier tires even though they were bald. I drove it in the rain & also in loose gravel.
I can feel when its getting ready to loose traction. No surprises.
Nitto are great too. If you can afford it I say go for the best tires.
Nitto or Direzza are great for grip. Not longevity.
GAbOS
06-29-2011, 01:40 PM
Tires make HUGE difference.
What more people use than not in Solo in my area are..
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Kumho Ecsta XS
Both are close in price and performance. It's a personal thing with people since they are so close.
These tires will wear faster than your normal performance summer tires when driven harder.
A great tire for daily driving is the Continental ExtremeContact DW (or DWS for all season version). Cheap tire, lasts a long time, quiet and gets the highest reviews on just about any site.
BravoZero
06-29-2011, 02:23 PM
A great tire for daily driving is the Continental ExtremeContact DW (or DWS for all season version). Cheap tire, lasts a long time, quiet and gets the highest reviews on just about any site.
That's what I plan on going with. Where I live, having all season tires are a must for daily driving.
Jackal
06-29-2011, 03:19 PM
NFS Lancer RA The 14" rotors you speak of are they Evo X front rotors? I think I will be doing your whole brake upgrade next year, but I would like to start buying the parts over the course of the winter. Just wanted to confirm because rotors are the first item on my to buy list.
NFSLancerRA
06-29-2011, 05:25 PM
NFS Lancer RA The 14" rotors you speak of are they Evo X front rotors? I think I will be doing your whole brake upgrade next year, but I would like to start buying the parts over the course of the winter. Just wanted to confirm because rotors are the first item on my to buy list.
The rotors that correspond with the C5/C6 base calipers are 14" rotors from the Evo X. HOWEVER, I will only sell the 6/4 piston setup as a kit.
KrazyRA
06-29-2011, 10:14 PM
The rotors that correspond with the C5/C6 base calipers are 14" rotors from the Evo X. HOWEVER, I will only sell the 6/4 piston setup as a kit.
How much for this brake kit and do you have any pics?
NFSLancerRA
06-30-2011, 03:30 AM
How much for this brake kit and do you have any pics?
The kit is going to be $3k. I am on vacation until next Wednesday. I will post a lot of pictures once the production kit is finished. :D
Ralliart23
06-30-2011, 07:18 AM
sorry to ask the obvious, but dont the corvette calipers say CORVETTE in big white writing across them? are you buying them from the manufacturer without that?
razorlab
06-30-2011, 10:35 AM
sorry to ask the obvious, but dont the corvette calipers say CORVETTE in big white writing across them? are you buying them from the manufacturer without that?
You can get the PBR 6 pots without branding, in silver, from Kore 3.
You can also get the red CORVETTE branded PBR 6 pots from them as well. The nice thing about the 6pots is that the CORVETTE is just a silkscreen on the caliper, not molded in like the 2 pot C5/C6 calipers.
You could wet send them off pretty easily.
http://norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/brakes/Kore3_C6Z06/IMG_2720.jpg
^Happy Birthday Bryan.
Those 6 piston calipers are sweet.
I would silkscreen ralliart on there. :)
I got a silkscreen table for simple stuff like that.
BravoZero
06-30-2011, 10:56 AM
That would be pretty cool.
NFSLancerRA
06-30-2011, 02:28 PM
I have the last set of those calipers (all grey). All of my calipers are blanks. They come from the Grand Sport. I will have to pay to have more of those made.
razorlab
06-30-2011, 03:09 PM
I have the last set of those calipers (all grey). All of my calipers are blanks. They come from the Grand Sport. I will have to pay to have more of those made.
Doesn't the grand sport come with the same C6 2 pots but larger rotors?
I thought the 6pots where reserved for the Z06 and ZR1?
NFSLancerRA
06-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Doesn't the grand sport come with the same C6 2 pots but larger rotors?
I thought the 6pots where reserved for the Z06 and ZR1?
Maybe it is an option package? :dunno:
EricS09RA
06-30-2011, 05:32 PM
I thought the GrandSport was pretty much the same brakes and suspension as the Z06, but with the regular C6 motor.
razorlab
06-30-2011, 05:43 PM
I thought the GrandSport was pretty much the same brakes and suspension as the Z06, but with the regular C6 motor.'
Looks like you are right, the grand sport does have the silver 6pots, however they ARE branded corvette:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2010-corvette-grand-sport_100227194_l.jpg
http://www.luxuryautodirect.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-GeigerCars-Corvette-Grand-Sport-LAD6.jpg
NFSLancerRA
06-30-2011, 07:03 PM
Wow, those wheels look like ass...off topic.
I want to know more about the crank and bottom end of the engine. Sorry until I see part numbers that can be verified as different between the Evo X and Ralliart I will assume they are exactly the same each and every part through out the engine until someone proves differently. I have heard stories going back to late 2008 but have yet to see proof that the Evo X has better parts.
the ralliart and the evoX have the same crankshaft part number 110A139. they are the same, [ crankshaft and bearings us$688 ]
Thanks for the info Kris.
I have been doing some suspension research
I find this very interesting.
http://www.activeshock.com/main_hardware.htm
ssshhhh. dont tell the evo owners. :P
NFSLancerRA
07-27-2011, 10:05 AM
Those are more expensive, by a long shot, than KW's. I was quoted over $1k for each individual shock.
Yeah but active suspension give you flexibility overall. Guess we gotta pay to play.
For lowered cars that needs clearance. From the vid it take awhile to activate the HLS.:D
http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_hls.php
Competition 3-way adjustable are nice but not cheap either.
http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_competition.php
What kinda of suspension setup do you have in mind for your RA? if you dont mind sharing?
Exyia
07-27-2011, 02:16 PM
imo I'm happy with my budget BC RAM's for the price
If anything, suspension tuning is way more complicated than power (tires, wheel size, wheel weight, car weight, roll bars, etc). Add to that the fact that very very very few people know how to properly tune a suspension, those top-quality pieces seem like overkill to me
just my 2cents :p
Those are more expensive, by a long shot, than KW's. I was quoted over $1k for each individual shock.
$1k for Active shocks?
BravoZero
07-27-2011, 04:11 PM
imo I'm happy with my budget BC RAM's for the price
If anything, suspension tuning is way more complicated than power (tires, wheel size, wheel weight, car weight, roll bars, etc). Add to that the fact that very very very few people know how to properly tune a suspension, those top-quality pieces seem like overkill to me
just my 2cents :p
+1, my BR series coilovers from BC are great, the car handles much better than it did with the stock suspension. Add a front and rear swaybar, upgrade the tires and drop a few pounds off the car and you'll have an awesome-handling daily driver to say the least.
Don@SCMitsu
07-27-2011, 04:35 PM
I want to know more about the crank and bottom end of the engine. Sorry until I see part numbers that can be verified as different between the Evo X and Ralliart I will assume they are exactly the same each and every part through out the engine until someone proves differently. I have heard stories going back to late 2008 but have yet to see proof that the Evo X has better parts.
Here is your proof that the RA and EVO X engine is the same, including crank part numbers...
Don@SCMitsu
07-27-2011, 04:35 PM
Here is your proof that the RA and EVO X engine is the same, including crank part numbers...
One more picture
Thanks for the confirmation, Don. :cool:
Maybe once of these days you can help us post all the P/N for all the components of our RA would be very helpful down the road. :)
Don@SCMitsu
07-27-2011, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the confirmation, Don. :cool:
Maybe once of these days you can help us post all the P/N for all the components of our RA would be very helpful down the road. :)
LOL, I'll charge you for that service :P
lol, If i get some spare time i'll post them.
What P/N are you looking for?
NFSLancerRA
07-27-2011, 06:29 PM
What kinda of suspension setup do you have in mind for your RA? if you dont mind sharing?
Sorry about that. I didn't mean to "hate" on your posting. Those are very high-tech shock absorbers. However, I would like to use something just a little bit less expensive.
I have wanted a set of Tein Flex Coilovers with an EDFC for awhile. However, I realize that that brand can be hit or miss.
I would love to have Bilstein re-manufacture a set of Ralliart shocks and struts to Evolution X MR specifications. I have no clue how feasible this would be. I have a set of blown shocks and struts. That is about it. I have spoken with a large number of people about potential upgrades for this car. Bilstein is not one of them.
I can tell you that, after I get done with the clutches (hopefully next week or the week after), I will have more time to look into that.
NFSLancerRA
07-27-2011, 06:34 PM
The other thing is that I am not sure how keen I am to start producing these clutch-packs. It seems that many others have started to produce their own variants. I want something that is tailored to the Ralliart, so I am going to at the very least try out a set of my own (for nothing else than shear amusement). I have the fluid. I am working on a new transmission cooler. After that, I have an MR TCU to install (hopefully).
I really want to push the limits of the CBRD RAD. I have gone back and forth about this turbocharger. I have decided to stick with it. This car will run 11's when it is finished.
Jackal
07-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Well keep us posted as I too would like to put my car in the 11 second club.
LOL, I'll charge you for that service :P
lol, If i get some spare time i'll post them.
What P/N are you looking for?
Sry off topic.
I can pay you in Kudos Points. ;)
P/N for EVERYTHING. :eek: :D
EricS09RA
08-29-2011, 05:50 AM
Any updates on the kevlar clutches?
NFSLancerRA
08-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Any updates on the kevlar clutches?
I am waiting to hear back. I sent them the design in AutoCAD and a set of clutches for good measure. They already quoted me a price, so I am not sure what the hold-up is. Either way, it shouldn't be long. The launch date is still December.
The brake upgrade is still slated to go back on sale in November, though. The suspension should be out by then, too. I am working with a few people to get the specs on the stock springs to have a custom set made for the shocks. The plan is to use 300# springs (custom made if need-be) for the shocks and struts. I want to have the suspensions components designed for stiffer springs. That way, you can go as stiff as you want but also feel confident with available aftermarket springs. Win-win.
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