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Livefast
11-01-2011, 02:06 PM
Switched from E85 back to RON98 fuel.
Car started fine couple days.
Last friday morning it didnt start (cold engine). Starter was running but car just not want to start up.
After estimate 10mins of trying it fired up. And worked fine whole day and saturday.No matter if engine was warm or not. Worked fine....
Saturday night it did it again. But started after couple mins.Drove it to friends yard.
Sunday i went to pick it up.And again,would not start. Tried so long that battery went out. Put it on charger.Went again yesterday and changed new spark plugs. Still had to try so long that battery went out.Today i changed main relay and switch all green relays between each other. Nothing..... Car is still standing there :)
Also tryed with different ROMīs. No changes.....
What i know is that car is getting fuel. Sparkplugs go wet,i smell gas when i try long,and there is also fumes coming out of exhaust.....

Today i ordered new blue relays from SSP,but it will take some time because i had to transfer money to my Paypal account.

Any idea?

BravoZero
11-01-2011, 05:14 PM
Did you have this problem on E85, or when you were on gasoline before that?

What year is your Ralliart? What is the average temperature when you're trying to start it?

Mine had a hard time starting this past Friday when it reached freezing temps at 0530 in the morning, started after a couple of minutes and been fine since.

MikeW-RRE
11-01-2011, 06:51 PM
Something in your tune and super cold may be disagreeing.

Once you get the cylinders flooded with fuel, you need to dig back out of that hole. You can unplug the injector connectors or the fuel pump to crank it for a while to dry out the cylinders. It may get to a point where it starts to fire and you can reconnect them.

If the fuel relay (the secondary one we all replace with the blue one) fails, that only affects full throttle and it would lean out. That can not cause this problem.

Otherwise you need to confirm that you have fuel, spark and compression in the cylinder. If you have all that at the right time, the car starts and runs.

Mike W

Livefast
11-01-2011, 11:02 PM
Did you have this problem on E85, or when you were on gasoline before that?

What year is your Ralliart? What is the average temperature when you're trying to start it?

Mine had a hard time starting this past Friday when it reached freezing temps at 0530 in the morning, started after a couple of minutes and been fine since.

Nope.Problems started couple days after fuel swap.

Car is 2009

Itīs not temp what it causing this right now. We had many freezing temps week ago. Now itīs quite warm again.

Livefast
11-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Something in your tune and super cold may be disagreeing.

Once you get the cylinders flooded with fuel, you need to dig back out of that hole. You can unplug the injector connectors or the fuel pump to crank it for a while to dry out the cylinders. It may get to a point where it starts to fire and you can reconnect them.

If the fuel relay (the secondary one we all replace with the blue one) fails, that only affects full throttle and it would lean out. That can not cause this problem.

Otherwise you need to confirm that you have fuel, spark and compression in the cylinder. If you have all that at the right time, the car starts and runs.

Mike W

Not cold at moment. Was a lot colder week ago.
And i also try with different roms.

I will do and check all that. THANKS

Livefast
11-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Okay,i THINK itīs something on fuel delivery.

I did what Mike told. Unplugged injector connectors,and it fired up imediatly.
Continue starting that all possible fuel will burn out from cylinders.
Plugged connectors back,but didnt start. Again unplugged and started car.
Fired up and i connect very fast everything,before it shut off.
And finally it was running. I let it idle a while and giving some gas time to time.
After estimate 5min idle,it just started lowing revs and shut off :D
Again tried start it,but nothing. Only way was that i disconnected connectors,started,and put all back when car was running again.
But now it wasnt good idle at all. Had to give throttle little bit all time,or engine shut off.And i try many many times.
AFR was also quite low. Almost same that i normally have on under WOT.
When i put gear on,it shutted off imediatly. Needed a lot throttle to move.
And black smoke was coming out of exhaust when giving throttle gear on.
Manage to drive it out from that yard,so tow truck can come pick it up now.
Have to call tow car to pick it up for tomorrow or friday. Thank god i just got new own garage.

So what i think all of this:
Engine is getting too much fuel on start. And when engine running,it gets too little.I dont know....Hard to say.But what i know,itīs not tune.Tried with different roms.

Maybe just need to start with compression test.And if it shows ok,then have to start cleaning fuel lines.

What do you guys think?

TheBlackBeast
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Can you provide more info on the mods that you are currently running, plus any changes you've made recently?

Also, how did you "switch" from e85 to regular gas? Did you use up all e85 and then fill it with regular or...?

razorlab
11-02-2011, 01:38 PM
Bad injectors maybe, I can't remember, are you running DW's?

Just a hunch..

Livefast
11-02-2011, 01:47 PM
Can you provide more info on the mods that you are currently running, plus any changes you've made recently?

Also, how did you "switch" from e85 to regular gas? Did you use up all e85 and then fill it with regular or...?

No changes recently.
Engine mods:
-InjectorDynamics 1000cc
-Blaqops E85 kit + Walbro pump
-Fujita EvoX intake
-EvoX OEM turbo & manifold.
-3port boost solenoid
-Turbo XS downpipe & catted testpipe
-Synapse diverter valve
-Ultimate racing fmic,uicp&licp

I use up all that i can.But i didnt suck left of 85īs out of tank or anything :)
And remember it didnt do all of this just after swap.
I drove couple days and two tanks.So im sure there was 98% pure fuel then.

Livefast
11-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Bad injectors maybe, I can't remember, are you running DW's?

Just a hunch..

Injector Dynamics

MTZL
11-03-2011, 09:51 AM
Sounds like you're not getting spark.
-Faulty Spark plugs
-Battery

& YES YOU NEED A TUNE.
Stop trying different ROMs it is pointless unless if it is a ROM from someone with the same setup as yours.

Livefast
11-03-2011, 11:49 AM
Sounds like you're not getting spark.
-Faulty Spark plugs
-Battery

& YES YOU NEED A TUNE.
Stop trying different ROMs it is pointless unless if it is a ROM from someone with the same setup as yours.

I have spark.Tested.
Also quite new spark plugs + i put totally new ones two days ago
Battery is full

I have good tune.
I dont try different roms from someone else :)
I have many different roms from tuning this car.

Livefast
11-03-2011, 12:00 PM
Im 95% sure of that problem is on fuel delivery. (always have to leave 5% margin for possible strange things or changing conditions :) )
Okay,can be also example engine heat sensor or something like that....We will see

We talked yesterday with Bryan (Razorlab),and thought that testing injectors will be best move next. He sent me new rom for test with oem injectors with current mods.
I will tow car tomorrow to my shop/garage,and start figuring out this problem more.
There is too dark outside,and no tools or motivation :)

Livefast
11-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Okay,seems like problem is not injector/-s.
Car starts almost fine,but again when engine get normal working temperature,it will not start again. But now i get engine back running,keeping throttle on floor and start estimate 2secs. But idle is again bad,and engine will shut off,without throttle.
I think not,but i ask anyway.Can failed 3port boost solenoid cause this.
I just remember that couple days before problems started,solenoid kept sound couple times when car was stand still and idle. And it should not do that.

Seems also that engine temperature is OK. Evoscan shows right realistic engine temps,and it will be from that sensor.Right?
I think i have to start measure fuel pressure next. Can be failed fuel pressure regulator too.....Only god knows.

BravoZero
11-07-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm not an expert, but if you've look at everything mechanical, it's gotta be how your ECU is set up then.

razorlab
11-07-2011, 10:47 AM
I'm not an expert, but if you've look at everything mechanical, it's gotta be how your ECU is set up then.

Car had been running fine until now. The ROM doesn't change. Mechanical things can.

Livefast
11-07-2011, 10:52 AM
Yup! Definetly mechanical. Known at begin.

NFSLancerRA
11-07-2011, 01:45 PM
It sounded like a bad crank sensor, but that would keep the car from turning on at all.

It could be the fuel pump. If the amperage increases when the car is hot, it might result in shutdown. That might also explain the crappy idle. I would start there with a low amp probe.

This is what the amperage should look like on the right. The left is a bad pump with shutoff condition constantly exhibited:

http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/rplmoreci/2009-07-19_202609_Fuel_pump_bad_versus_good.jpg

NFSLancerRA
11-07-2011, 01:47 PM
I have the stock pump from my Ralliart. If you want to give that a try, let me know. I will get a hold of it and send it to you.

Livefast
11-07-2011, 02:13 PM
It sounded like a bad crank sensor, but that would keep the car from turning on at all.

It could be the fuel pump. If the amperage increases when the car is hot, it might result in shutdown. That might also explain the crappy idle. I would start there with a low amp probe.

This is what the amperage should look like on the right. The left is a bad pump with shutoff condition constantly exhibited:

This seems intresting. Always thought that pump even works or not.
This is why i automatically close that idea out off my head.
Big thanks to you! I will definetly try with new pump asap i find time for car.

Livefast
11-07-2011, 02:16 PM
I have the stock pump from my Ralliart. If you want to give that a try, let me know. I will get a hold of it and send it to you.

Thanks for offer! Very kind!
I have stock pump too. I also have some extra Walbro GSS342 pumps on shelf.
So i will try with new pump.

NFSLancerRA
11-07-2011, 06:11 PM
Let me know how this turns out. I think that changing out the pump should do the trick. If not, I can't think of anything else that would cause this specific set of symptoms. My guess is that it will work.

Livefast
11-07-2011, 09:39 PM
Let me know how this turns out. I think that changing out the pump should do the trick. If not, I can't think of anything else that would cause this specific set of symptoms. My guess is that it will work.

Of course!
Just checked and see that i run out of stock on Walbro pumps.Put i will get new shippment on thursday. Also got new blue relays & grey main yesterday.
So i will try thursday or friday.
Thanks.

Livefast
11-10-2011, 11:50 AM
Okay,problem was not fuel pump.
Again car started fine. But runs very rich.I idle it to warm. Then i shut it off.
Tried again,engine fired up imediatly,and again runned fine.I run car a while around garage,and got back. Shut off,but then it didnt fire up anymore.
Again i disconnect injectors harness,started it,fires up,run quickly but injector harness back,and car was running again. But of course it was having too much fuel.

So PROBLEM IS: Car is having way too much fuel.

Injectors - fine
Fuel pump - fine
Tune - definetly fine
Relays - fine
Spark plugs - fine
Spark - fine
Engine heat sensor - fine (Evoscan shows right temperatures)
Fuel regulator - checked with sucking,fucking and blowing. No big leak.But hard to say is it ok or not with that kind of testing.
Me - fine
My whore wife - Everything is possible. Could be main problem

So this only leads for couple possible problems. Fuel regulator,first O2 sensor or Maf. I will order new regulator tomorrow.

Have to start measure fuel pressure after this,if non of those three things will not help.

So if someone has better idea/-s,im more than welcome to take those!

NFSLancerRA
11-11-2011, 02:57 PM
Interesting.

KyleKitchen
12-10-2011, 08:50 AM
My whore wife - Everything is possible. Could be main problem


Sorry, have to bump for this.




Update?

Livefast
01-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Hi!

Im very sorry about big delay on update!
I had a lot personal things going on. Divorce and things like that. So havent had any motivation to read or write to forums. Or even build my car. But im back again.

I manage to find problem day after my last post.

PROBLEM WAS too big fuel pressure. What was from stuck fuel return line valve on fuel tank system. E85 is toxic stuff ;)

BravoZero
01-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Hi!

Im very sorry about big delay on update!
I had a lot personal things going on. Divorce and things like that. So havent had any motivation to read or write to forums. Or even build my car. But im back again.

I manage to find problem day after my last post.

PROBLEM WAS too big fuel pressure. What was from stuck fuel return line valve on fuel tank system. E85 is toxic stuff ;)

Damn, sorry to hear about the divorce man. But glad you got the issue fixed.

Livefast
01-24-2012, 12:49 PM
Or would i say i fixed two issues... :)

Thanks for kind words