toyota ft 86 / subaru brz / scion fr s

[Scarab23]

can someone explain this whole thing to me. how is that subaru is coming out with virtually the same car as toyota? i don't even really understand why toyota is coming out with two of these? why not just either a toyota or scion, whats the thinking behind this?

i just don't understand, why would toyota and subaru, two japanese competitors come out with a car which is the same body just different badging (maybe slight performance differences I'm not sure)

someone educate me please haha

[GAbOS]

The states are only getting the Scion. Shareing parts has been in car history for a while now. Not surprised at all hearing about the Suboyta partnership in such strange times.

I honestly think it's fuggly. Great package idea in a crap body.

[MTZL]

Its like Dodge Stealth & Mitsu 3000GT
Eagle Talon & Mitsu Eclipse

From business perspective it is perfect competition.
Same reason why most developers make universal platform.
Same reason why most tools/part are universal.
So they can sell more.

From producer view point they dont care which company sell more as long as they're selling. From the looks of it both Subaru & Toyota/Scion bought it.

Scion is subsidiary (daughter company) to Toyota.
Which is marketing ploy since Toyota will maintain certain level of quality & standards. Same with Lexus. Scion was born to target lower income & new generation younger crowd.

[BravoZero]

The car is only about 170-ish horsepower... nothing to gloat over. The Ralliart can kick it's ass stock. The whole idea is retarded to say the least.

[Mkid]

You do realize its almost as light as miata though, right? Horsepower isn't everything. I would think twice about challenging one of these things. I think they will pack a punch.

[BravoZero]

You do realize its almost as light as miata though, right? Horsepower isn't everything. I would think twice about challenging one of these things. I think they will pack a punch.

Eh, I'd rather have a heavier vehicle. At least I know it'll do much better in an accident. To me, lighter weight means cheaper materials used. That's like with cars that have a carbon fiber shell... I dunno if I trust it as much. Maybe I'm just old-schooled, lol.

I'd rather have a slightly heavy Mustang than a lightweight Toyota/Subaru coupe.

[Mkid]

I'm just saying that I wouldn't go as far as saying the ralliart will kick its ass. i think they will probably be close in a straight line but this car will be a beast on a circuit because of its light weight.

[ChaseRalli]

i read that there are two differant engine options....a 170 and a 256.

[Drew]

I've only seen the 2.0 flat 4 as a powerplant that makes 200hp and around 150llb/ft of torque. The car is supposed to weigh almost the exact same thing as an S2000 (~2750lbs), with 37 less hp. I guess it depends on what your definition of "kill" is. A stock S2000 has comparable 1/4 mile numbers to a stock RA, but it has roughly 20% more power than the FR-S. I would be surprised if the FR-S was close to the RA. As a reference point, the 2012 Civic Si coupe weighs 100 lbs more (~2870) and has the same hp, but 20lb/ft more torque, and averages 14.9-15.1 second quarter miles. I would expect the FR-Sto be in about the same place....

http://www.frs-scion.com/specs/

[Scarab23]

when i was looking online at subaru's version, the concept they had was actually an sti version. i don't think an sti version has been announced, but if subaru does do that, i think the number will be way higher than 200/150.

[Drew]

when i was looking online at subaru's version, the concept they had was actually an sti version. i don't think an sti version has been announced, but if subaru does do that, i think the number will be way higher than 200/150.

The only concept of the subie version was the BRZ STI. I don't know if they just called the concept an STI for gits and shiggles, but nothing about that car drew any comparisons to the WRX STI. The concept BRZ STI has the same NA 2.0L powerplant in it that the production scion will have. No turbo, no awd, no extra power. Now if they DID make a true production STI version, that could be interesting. Of course, that would mean Subie would "cheat" and bump the displacement up to 2.5L to get the extra power, and only be putting it through the rear wheels. At that point, you have a car roughly equivalent to a 3.8 Genesis Coupe, but probably costing northwards of 35k because it's an "sti". Who knows how it will turn out. It looks ok, I guess. It does look pretty similar to a Genesis...

[Scarab23]

The only concept of the subie version was the BRZ STI. I don't know if they just called the concept an STI for gits and shiggles, but nothing about that car drew any comparisons to the WRX STI. The concept BRZ STI has the same NA 2.0L powerplant in it that the production scion will have. No turbo, no awd, no extra power. Now if they DID make a true production STI version, that could be interesting. Of course, that would mean Subie would "cheat" and bump the displacement up to 2.5L to get the extra power, and only be putting it through the rear wheels. At that point, you have a car roughly equivalent to a 3.8 Genesis Coupe, but probably costing northwards of 35k because it's an "sti". Who knows how it will turn out. It looks ok, I guess. It does look pretty similar to a Genesis...

yeah i was always really quick to draw comparison to the genesis. i never liked the genesis front end though, i think the ft86/brz has a way better design

[BravoZero]

Eh...

Subaru and Toyota, one of which is known for good passenger cars, the other is known for the crappy car I drove before the Ralliart. No thanks to either one, I'd still rather have an older Evo or even a DSM.

[sstevojr]

Toyota has a minority stake in Subaru (completely separate companies, but Fuji Heavy Industries is the parent company) 17% IIRC, the result of which is technology sharing (think the Stealth/3000GT from when Dodge had a minority stake back in the 90's; 11%??).
What is so great about this car is not the flat out power level, but the FR set-up and handling characteristics (why do you think S2000's and Miata's are so fun to drive, it's not the 400hp under the hood :p).

[MTZL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl7VfFKE&feature=player_embedded

[GAbOS]

I didn't think they could, but they did. It's even uglier in that JDM GT trim. Though, JGT series cars have always been a bit "out there".

[GAbOS]

The Colt Ralliart weighs in at 200lbs less with 154 (4G15).

I think NA has lacked great cars for many years. Just about anywhere but here get manufactures we don't see, and even the ones we do, and consider "American" can't give us the best they can do.

The Ford Mondeo (Contour as we knew it) was/is still considered one of the best buys and made for many more years. It was made in Germany. ;)

I feel crapped on quite a bit in NA when it comes to cars. The bonus is, we don't see the insane tax rates and laws, insurance, let a lone obtaining your license.

[SubjecttoChange]

Reviving an old thread...

Tested out the FR-S today. Really... it's a cool car. A very practical DD sports car. Pretty comfortable- great chassis grip and reasonably powerful.

It doesn't outperform cars costing 2x it's cost like RA/Evos can- but this is a really fun car it its own rite.

[RalliNurse]

Reviving an old thread...

Tested out the FR-S today. Really... it's a cool car. A very practical DD sports car. Pretty comfortable- great chassis grip and reasonably powerful.

It doesn't outperform cars costing 2x it's cost like RA/Evos can- but this is a really fun car it its own rite.

How did the dealer let you walked outta there ALIVE?????
:confused::confused::confused:

[bertybrate]

the ft 86 is just for japan, they just released the 170+ horsepower here in us, and even if its light ralliart still will win because of the awd.
unless its drifting, thats a diff story:p

[CoryJNason]

I work for Toyota and am going to solve all of your questions lol. They car itself is MUCH smaller than it appears. I am 6'2" and can barely fit into it. It has OK looks for a Scion but doesnt really tickle any part of my body. We got the first one in florida and it was won by a kid. It was a 6-speed though which made me actually squeeze in and take it to the gas station to fill it lol. Low end power is NOT there. A supercharged version would do it wonders. I could cherp them going into second but you can do that in a Scion TC as well. The exhaust note is very poor and is almost none exisitant. The TC has a much better tone. Once you get to about 45-50 excelleration is limited. Brakeing is fair for the car. Suspension is really not that good for a sports car. The RWD helps make it a little better but not much. The interior to me seems poorly done BESIDES the seats. The seats are my favorite part to the car lol. All in all nothing special. The guy who said the Ralliart would spank this car was 100% accurate! Wait about a year at least before you think about buying. Kinks are almost certain!

[SubjecttoChange]

How did the dealer let you walked outta there ALIVE?????
:confused::confused::confused:

What do you mean? They had one demo car that's not for sale in an effort to entice people to try it out and then place orders.

I was looking with my Dad- he's contemplating getting rid of his massive truck since all he does is commute with it anymore. He had a pretty major neck surgery so a real purpose-built performance car is no good since it'd have rock hard suspension. He still wants fun and decent gas mileage. I think it fits that bill well. Good overall car for DD.

Performance car- that's track ready out of the box? Not so much.

[RalliNurse]

What do you mean? They had one demo car that's not for sale in an effort to entice people to try it out and then place orders.

I was looking with my Dad- he's contemplating getting rid of his massive truck since all he does is commute with it anymore. He had a pretty major neck surgery so a real purpose-built performance car is no good since it'd have rock hard suspension. He still wants fun and decent gas mileage. I think it fits that bill well. Good overall car for DD.

Performance car- that's track ready out of the box? Not so much.

Oic...what I mean is I thought they'll force u to buy the car then they'll let u leave...:D

[SubjecttoChange]

Gotcha. Nope they let me live.

There was a lot of interest. Seems like they would have sold 10 while I was there. None in stock though...

[Burnstormer]

Rode in my friend's Subaru BRZ Limited. It already has Tein Flex coilovers, Volk CE28s, and also a thicker rear swaybar from an OEM 2008 STI. It is a fun little car and adding that swaybar makes it easy to kick out the back end lol.

[RalliNurse]

yeah...but for $27000 BRZ...I personally cant justify that price for a mere 200 hp car though...If they come out 280/300 hp about $27000 to $30000...then I would say yeah...it's worth it...

Look at our RA's about $26000 or few thousand more...literally same options...more hp/tq compare to BRZ...

Sexy looking car nonetheless...

[SubjecttoChange]

yeah...but for $27000 BRZ...I personally cant justify that price for a mere 200 hp car though...If they come out 280/300 hp about $27000 to $30000...then I would say yeah...it's worth it...

Look at our RA's about $26000 or few thousand more...literally same options...more hp/tq compare to BRZ...

Sexy looking car nonetheless...

Yep- same. Our car isn't nearly as neutral or balanced compared to the 86.... That said, for 30k you can make an RA a complete beast.

I think when it's time to see the RA go- I'd look at a lightly used one... That is unless other car makers get the hint that people still want to drive fun-light RWD

[MTZL]

I would opt for Toyota instead of Subaru. Just my personal preference.

[bertybrate]

both cars are good from subaru and toyota, but for the price id rather get wrx.
just my opinion, if you are on this forum you know you want a fast car.:D

[TrailBrake]

There was an FR-S at my track day yesterday. It appeared to handle well, and didn't exhibit much body roll. Wasn't hard to pass it though, but I think it was driven by a beginner.

[BravoZero]

The FRS/BRZ will instantly become a new addition to professional drifting once the slew of aftermarket parts comes out.

[Drew]

The FRS/BRZ will instantly become a new addition to professional drifting once the slew of aftermarket parts comes out.

They didn't even wait for the aftermarket. Just dropped the EJ257 from the STI in, and went balls out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E-8Xpek_dg

[zeRep85]

They didn't even wait for the aftermarket. Just dropped the EJ257 from the STI in, and went balls out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E-8Xpek_dg

http://instagr.am/p/MKafd6grnm/

2JZ in a JAYDEEUMMM FT-86 :)

[MTZL]

2jz ftw. :cool:

[Drew]

http://instagr.am/p/MKafd6grnm/

2JZ in a JAYDEEUMMM FT-86 :)

Well if you are going to go big, and do a custom install, you might as well go big...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120410/carnews01/120419995
(http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120410/carnews01/120419995)

[Insane11RA]

See now I don't get this bullshit at all, why do I need to drop in another motor? Why can't it come AWD and turbocharger ? Am I the only one thinking about this? Cheaper you say? You know 99% of new owners already have started modding it?
As soon as Subaru makes it AWD and turbocharged I will go upside down plus my left kidney.

[ChaseRalli]

Subaru BR-Z STI

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2014-subaru-brz-sti-ar127134.html

[RalliNurse]

See now I don't get this bullshit at all, why do I need to drop in another motor? Why can't it come AWD and turbocharger ? Am I the only one thinking about this? Cheaper you say? You know 99% of new owners already have started modding it?
As soon as Subaru makes it AWD and turbocharged I will go upside down plus my left kidney.

I'l do all that plus my left nut...:D

[BravoZero]

Honestly, I believe this should stay RWD. It's designed for it. But if they do decide to drop a turbo'ed flat four, then you'd definitely get a lot of interest. Hell, Hyundai (kinda) pulled it off with the Genesis Coupe, it had a 2.0L turbocharged engine, why can't Subaru?

And I don't believe the BS in that article, dropping the STI engine into that car has already been done. There's enough room, but I have a feeling they don't want to steal the spotlight away from the WRX STI as their flagship performance car.

[RalliNurse]

I've heard that subie gonna spin-off sti as its own entity..can anyone confirm?

[MTZL]

AWD 86? :confused::( Say No to drugs. Stranger danger. Show me on the doll where the bad mechanic touched you 86. :p