View Full Version : Looking for some good advice..
SO i have had my Ralliart for about 4 months and i have been wanting to increase its HP and torque. My goal is to get the car around 300hp and torque.
I was wondering how much should i be looking to spend? I am planning on replacing the exhaust with the ultimate racing exhaust as my first upgrade.
BravoZero
01-24-2012, 09:27 PM
SO i have had my Ralliart for about 4 months and i have been wanting to increase its HP and torque. My goal is to get the car around 300hp and torque.
I was wondering how much should i be looking to spend? I am planning on replacing the exhaust with the ultimate racing exhaust as my first upgrade.
There's a lot of research you need to do, it's not just simply throwing parts on the car and go about life. You have to plan what you're going to install and most importantly, you HAVE to make sure you tune the car with regards to the SST transmission. You can do more than 300 hp/tq to the wheels, but at that point it's almost beneficial to upgrade the clutch packs just in case.
Just do some quick searching around this site and you'll find plenty of info, including this thread:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/09-ralliart-engine-turbo-drivetrain/576910-info-modding-your-ra.html
wwralliart77
01-24-2012, 09:49 PM
HP comes at a cost and the question you must ask yourself is if you're willing to spend the time and money to do so. The extra power the vehicle will receive will also put additional stress on other components which may result badly. Also keep in mind that the more parts you throw at the vehicle your warranty will pretty much diminish. Someone has yet to calculate monetary value per HP gained. It would be interesting to see just how much it costs per additional HP gained. Just because you throw parts at the vehicle doesn't mean that you'll gain HP. In reality sometimes you lose HP or gain very little. Like others mentioned, do you research!
Parts you should be considering are better flowing intercooler and exhaust components, higher rated bov (to support higher psi levels), possibly an X turbo swap along with the necessary components to achieve that desired 300. Obviously a dyno tune will be required to accommodate for the additional parts installed. It has been noted that 300 awhp requires an upgraded OEM RA Turbo or a Evo X Turbo Swap. 300 awhp can be done on a OEM Turbo but it's pretty maxed out that it's not the best of ideas. Keep in mind that certain dynos read higher then others, so you have to decide what "300" is to you. Best of luck!
BravoZero
01-24-2012, 10:29 PM
I planned on building my RA up to where I can safely drive it reliably but have a lot more power over stock, but the end result is a big cut in longevity and decrease in fuel economy. That's why I'm looking for another older fuel efficient car to drive every day and drive the RA on weekends or up to the store, as well as possibly autocross in the future. I too am going for the 300 mark so we'll see.
Good advices so far.
the question should be how much more heat does it generate with __ additional power?
Every parts have structural integrity, all moving parts are vulnerable to them.
Radiator is a good thing to upgrade for longevity.
Oil cooler is a must.
SSTF cooler(s) is highly recommended.
these some-what low budget upgrades should give you better reliable car.
Of course down sides of all of that is extra expenses for additional fluid & maintenance.
AlphaKennyBody
01-25-2012, 05:23 PM
You can make 300 and make roughly 330 tq on the stock turbo on e85. With basic bolts ons injectors, pump, and tune.
Really? But isn't E85 a fairly sparse around the country?
I thank you guys for all the responses. I am fairly new to the tuning and i absolutely love my RA just stock but at the same time i would love to just give it some more umph so to speak.
wwralliart77
01-26-2012, 10:14 PM
Really? But isn't E85 a fairly sparse around the country?
^ It can be a little difficult to source not to mention the cost. Besides since you'd be looking at swapping out the injectors, fuel rail, fuel pump, etc. it would make more sense to just opt for the turbo swap.
BravoZero
01-27-2012, 06:06 AM
Honestly, if E85 was more plentiful in my area I'd run my RA on it. I've seen an Evo run E85 in person and it's really neat. Yea, you don't get as many miles to the gallon but for the power you get with a proper tune over gasoline, it's worth it.
AlphaKennyBody
01-27-2012, 02:41 PM
Honestly, if E85 was more plentiful in my area I'd run my RA on it. I've seen an Evo run E85 in person and it's really neat. Yea, you don't get as many miles to the gallon but for the power you get with a proper tune over gasoline, it's worth it.
Honestly, unless you have a heavy foot then yeah you'll get bad gas mileage... In all honesty, I'm getting the same mileage I did with Bryan's v2.7 Beta map as I am on now with a custom E85 Map. YES, if I go racing around yeah this shit dies REAL fast.... I was able to manage a 220miles on a full tank with 30%City and the 70% Highway while doing speeds of 70-85.
I would gun it onto the freeway and pass cars if needed since here in CA drivers can be retarded.
But on 91 I was easily pulling off 200-220 Miles driving around town like I stole it.
So here is what I am thinking after some research.
I am thinking of going with the UR dual exhaust system as the first upgrade. Then planning on replacing out the inter cooler with either the UR intercooler or an AMS intercooler. I am thinking those will be my first stage mods.
Second stage will be the evo mr bov, UR boostpill and a crbd turbo and tune.
Final upgrade with be replacing the stock brakes with a full stoptech front and back kit if they fit the OEM wheels.
So that is my quote on quote road map. Any suggestions and or recommendations welcomes. :)
BravoZero
02-11-2012, 02:25 PM
Instead of jumping in with a UR or AMS IC, try looking for an OEM X intercooler, plenty of them out there on various forums for sale and it's more than enough for the stock turbo, saving yourself some money.
Now, when you say "CBRD turbo", be more specific. CBRD makes a few different turbos that you can use with the 4B11T, are you talking about the RAD replacement, or bumping up to an Evo-sized turbo?
Otherwise, doing everything in stages is the way to go, allows you to save money and enjoy modding at the same time. My suggestion... do a small performance upgrade, then work on braking/suspension, then back to power upgrades. That way your car will be prepared a little better once you do more extensive power modding and a tune.
You can have all the power you want, but if your car can't stop or make it around the turn successfully, then it's a waste. Go with at least a nice set of springs, I recommend Swift. If you've got the money go with a set of coilovers. I have BC coilovers on mine and they're great, a HUGE improvement over stock.
I was going to go with the Rad lite that adds the like 40-50hp.
I am not trying to get super powerful because I want to keep reliability. So what I think I'll do is the turbo last.
BravoZero
02-11-2012, 03:43 PM
The nice thing about the RAD is the fact that you just bolt it on, tune it and you're good to go, provided you do have an upgraded IC and piping. If you're going that route, do it last. Upgrade your IC setup, go with a nice turboback system, tune it or flash a basemap tune, then do your brakes and suspension.
I need to find somewhere I could get a tune. Now for suspension do I really need to lower the car? I really didn't want to drop it since the car is already very very crisp. Right now I am find the yokos to be the weak point in my car's handling.
BravoZero
02-11-2012, 04:40 PM
I need to find somewhere I could get a tune. Now for suspension do I really need to lower the car? I really didn't want to drop it since the car is already very very crisp. Right now I am find the yokos to be the weak point in my car's handling.
You have two options if you want to maintain the stock height... leave the suspension as is or go with a set of coilovers and set them to match OEM height. When it comes to handling, the lower the center of gravity, the better it will perform, provided you have a good setup. If you don't want to go too low, get a set of Swift springs, they lower the car about an inch at most, maybe a little less, and they're the best springs for the money.
The OEM Yoko's are ridiculous. I went from having a "summer" Yoko Advan tire to a "UHP all-season" Continental DWS tire and it performs better in every aspect, plus the added bonus of driving in snow without fear of zero traction.
Where are you located? You mentioned CBRD, they're in York PA. I live in Fairfax VA and there are a couple of places near me, but no one in the mid-Atlantic region knows the Ralliart better than CBRD, and that's who I will make the two hour drive to for a tune. Chad knows Bryan at GST Motorsports in CA, who created the "basemap" flashable tunes for our cars.
Let me ask you if I went with the swift springs would they cause degradation to the suspension? I really don't care to do coilovers at this moment. I kinda want the brakes done because the stock brakes arent't that good. I am hoping I can go with stoptech which I have no idea if they will fit our OEM wheels.
As for tires I am thinking Kumho 4X tires as they have had rave reviews.
I live in Richmond, Va and the big reason I want to go for the rad is it seems the best bang for the buck.
BravoZero
02-11-2012, 06:21 PM
Let me ask you if I went with the swift springs would they cause degradation to the suspension? I really don't care to do coilovers at this moment. I kinda want the brakes done because the stock brakes arent't that good. I am hoping I can go with stoptech which I have no idea if they will fit our OEM wheels.
As for tires I am thinking Kumho 4X tires as they have had rave reviews.
I live in Richmond, Va and the big reason I want to go for the rad is it seems the best bang for the buck.
The good thing about Swift brand springs is it won't cause extensive wear on the suspension. It lowers the car enough for stability and keeps the height appropriate so that the OEM suspension doesn't wear out, but it maintains it's shape and the coils never touch, which enhances it's ability to perform. With modern shocks and struts, you can put a nice lowering spring on them and be fine, the older cars not so much, like my old Eclipse for example. I put Eibach Prokits on the stock suspension, blew them out a month later. I personally know someone local with a Lancer GTS with the Prokit springs, has them on his stock suspension for over three years now and no problems.
Aftermarket BBK's are designed for an OEM setup, so they'll clear the stock wheels no problem. The OEM EvoX brake system would clear the Ralliart wheels as well, except for the fact that they don't bolt up, which is a shame. Otherwise, look for the correct OEM size rotors and go with a good brake pad, maybe switch the rubber brake lines out with stainless lines to help with brake fade.
From Richmond, driving up to CBRD is a little bit of a hike, but if you're willing to do it and have the money, it'll be well worth it.
You sold me on the springs. I am going to take my time with the brake kit as the Stoptech BBKs i have found was 6k for a complete set.
I am fine with the drive to CBRD. I used to drive up and down the east coast to NJ.
BravoZero
02-12-2012, 07:22 AM
You sold me on the springs. I am going to take my time with the brake kit as the Stoptech BBKs i have found was 6k for a complete set.
I am fine with the drive to CBRD. I used to drive up and down the east coast to NJ.
When it comes to the brakes, focus on the fronts. That's where most of your stopping power comes from, and that's the main weak point on this car. The rears are fine with just upgrading the pads, but the fronts need a bit of work.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 09:22 AM
OP, screw the boost pill. If you plan to upgrade to the RAD, you will be needing a 3-port.
Also, don't leave out the UICP/LICP/Intake. You will want to have those.
The oil and SST coolers may make a difference on the track, but on the road, they don't matter (especially with an RAD).
If you are dead set on the StopTech brake kit, you will be needing a set of Evo X wheels. Your stockers don't come close to clearing the calipers. They barely clear the basic brake upgrade that I make.
If you go RAD, I would recommend CBRD make you an exhaust manifold to replace the stock one for better thermal dissipation or some kind of RAD support since it will be higher flow & will get hotter than stock.
Although I havent seen it with my own eyes. Having Turbo hanging from it & excess heat, it (Exhaust manifold) can/may crack.
Food for thought. (I may get really fat if I did that):D
OP, screw the boost pill. If you plan to upgrade to the RAD, you will be needing a 3-port.
Also, don't leave out the UICP/LICP/Intake. You will want to have those.
The oil and SST coolers may make a difference on the track, but on the road, they don't matter (especially with an RAD).
If you are dead set on the StopTech brake kit, you will be needing a set of Evo X wheels. Your stockers don't come close to clearing the calipers. They barely clear the basic brake upgrade that I make.
Forgive my ignorances but 3-port?
What would you recommend then for brake caliper upgrades? I know Brembo has an upgrade set but its only for the front. The main reason i wanted Stoptech was it was the only set i could find that covered both front and rear. However, if their are better solutions that do not force me to get new wheels i am all ears.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 12:32 PM
If you go RAD, I would recommend CBRD make you an exhaust manifold to replace the stock one for better thermal dissipation or some kind of RAD support since it will be higher flow & will get hotter than stock.
If you are worried about heat, getting a new manifold is the last thing that you should do. Tubular manifolds are not nearly as durable as the stock cast manifolds.
Not really worry, just something to think about.
& you're correct cast is better.
But there are more math involved than just putting parts on.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 12:35 PM
Forgive my ignorances but 3-port?
What would you recommend then for brake caliper upgrades? I know Brembo has an upgrade set but its only for the front. The main reason i wanted Stoptech was it was the only set i could find that covered both front and rear. However, if their are better solutions that do not force me to get new wheels i am all ears.
GrimmSpeed 3-port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid (If you don't know what this does, put your wallet away and start doing some research.)
The brake upgrade that I make just replaces the front rotors and calipers. That is your only option if you want to keep the stock wheels. However, I cannot imagine why you would want to do that. Brakes are tire limited. Also, a BBK will do nothing for you if you don't plan on tracking the car. I would save the money and get real honest to god coil-overs instead of brakes.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Not really worry, just something to think about.
& you're correct cast is better.
But there are more math involved than just putting parts on.
The absolute best thing that you can do is to have GrimmSpeed (or MAP) port and ceramic coat your stock manifold. While you are at it, I would have them ceramic coat the exhaust side of the turbine.
put your wallet away and start doing some research.
Brakes are tire limited.
+1 for good advice.
Im broke so I tend to over think, look at it from different perspectives.
Research & share my finding & converse with others that has more knowledge in the area. In the end, we all walk away with good info.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Yup. Anytime.
BravoZero
02-12-2012, 04:14 PM
NFS, are you still making those caliper brackets for the C6 upgrade?
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 04:32 PM
NFS, are you still making those caliper brackets for the C6 upgrade?
I am at most a few weeks away from releasing them, again. I have standing offers from a few different shops to produce the parts. I just need to nail down a price, get some samples, and release the products.
BravoZero
02-12-2012, 06:20 PM
I am at most a few weeks away from releasing them, again. I have standing offers from a few different shops to produce the parts. I just need to nail down a price, get some samples, and release the products.
Keep us informed, I am very interested in buying a set. That way I can slowly build up the C6 brake upgrade as finances allow.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 06:41 PM
Will do. And, OP, be smart about modifying the car. What is it that you want to get out of the RA?
Well, i am not trying to really boost the car that much. I will be taking it to the track at VIR but i am not trying to build this into a race car to drag.
What i am looking to do is give the car a good 40-50hp boost and maybe a good 20lbs of torque. I really dont care about straight line performance. Basically this car is my daily driver that i just want to put some modest gains in and have fun on the race way every now and again.
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 08:29 PM
Well, i am not trying to really boost the car that much. I will be taking it to the track at VIR but i am not trying to build this into a race car to drag.
What i am looking to do is give the car a good 40-50hp boost and maybe a good 20lbs of torque. I really dont care about straight line performance. Basically this car is my daily driver that i just want to put some modest gains in and have fun on the race way every now and again.
Well, I have the same goals with my X. Granted, I am pushing my car A LOT harder than you will be pushing yours, but here is what I recommend:
1). Intake/UICP/LICP/IC/Tune/Boost Pill (Get a bigger core than the X. If you are dead set on the stocker, I have one that I am willing to part with.)
2). DP/HFC/CBE
3). Coilovers/Pads/Rotors/Evo X Enkeis/Good Tires (If you want to run a bigger rotor in the front with a larger pad, I can help you with that, too.)
4). RAD/3-Port/BPV
5). TC-SST Cooler/Oil Cooler/New Tranny Fluid/Line Pressure Increase
If you wanted even more, you could run E-85 with the RAD. That might put you at about 350/350 with a car that can handle it.
now if i get Evo X Enkies do i need to roll my fenders or anything like? Or will they fit with no need to do anything to the body?
Sorry if i am asking stupid questions. I know that the Evo had wider fenders and i am just wondering will the wheels stick out like sore thumbs making the car look like its riding on big wheels that don't be long on them? =p
NFSLancerRA
02-12-2012, 08:57 PM
Yes, they will require a roll. It is worth it, as those wheels look great on the RA.
A set of four are what? 2K?
wwralliart77
02-12-2012, 09:58 PM
A set of four are what? 2K?
^ You can get a set of the Evo X Enkeis for about $500-$600 used, the Evo X BBS wheels will set you back about 1k used. Just shop around ;)
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 10:14 AM
A set of four are what? 2K?
I found a set the other day for $500 picked up in NC. I have decided against selling mine, because they are a damn good set of wheels. If you can find a set of used Dunlop SP600 tires from an STi (same size and everything), you should be at less than $1k for wheels AND tires. Food for thought. I am currently rooting around for STi tires. A lot of guys go with wider wheels and tires immediately and sell essentially brand new Dunlop tires for pennies on the dollar. If I could find two sets of those, I wouldn't need to buy new tires for a long time to come.
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 10:18 AM
Also, the only BPV that I would recommend going with for use in conjunction with the RAD is the Synapse Synchronic. It has to do with the way that it works, but you won't have noticeable partial throttle "flutter". I had serious issues with that and my TiAL QR. It works fine on the Evo X turbo, but man did it act up with the RAD.
I think I found some rims I really like.
So my first stage of upgrades will be the following.
New Intake, uicps and Licps, new intercooler, and new exhaust.
Second stage will be rims, tires, springs and brakes.
Now since I am building the car for light track work do I need to go with an oil and sst coolers?
:thumbsup: Coolers. If it was my RA, I would make it as cool as it looks.
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 10:32 AM
Now since I am building the car for light track work do I need to go with an oil and sst coolers?
Yes. You need both.
Okay cool. Any recommendation on an sst cooler? I see AMS has em but I remember in one of the threads they weren't so hot.
RRE Duel Coolers is my recommendation for functionality & price range.
Alternatively, AMS with the fancy fan. I do wonder if they sell the fan separately. Im sure with a bit of research & learning you can rig a fan yourself.
What wasn't so hot?
I thought I read something that the AMS sst coolers just wasnt that good.
I was thinking of going with the AMS stage 1 and stage 2 but I have reservations.
Btw I am very appreciative for all the information you guys have given.
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 12:02 PM
I thought I read something that the AMS sst coolers just wasnt that good.
I was thinking of going with the AMS stage 1 and stage 2 but I have reservations.
Btw I am very appreciative for all the information you guys have given.
I save all my negative comments for EvoM. N00bs are doomed over there, anyways.
Alright, getting the fenders rolled tomorrow. After that I am going to be looking to upgrading the wheels and suspension.
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 03:36 PM
Alright, getting the fenders rolled tomorrow. After that I am going to be looking to upgrading the wheels and suspension.
Where are you located? You mentioned VIR.
(The EvoM guys in NC are taking a trip to run on ToTD on April 28th, if you are interested.)
I am in Richmond. I would have to make sure I am not going to a wedding (friend is having eating married in April just no date set.) so if I am free I will definitely pop on by.
NFSLancerRA
02-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Yup. Just let me know. I might have an extra set of Evo X wheels with sticky tires if you want to try them out on the Dragon.
I am also keen to see how a set of my brakes work on that demanding road-course.
Will do. Hopefully i will have some upgrades on the car. It is hard to find Evo X wheels that don't look like they were beaten with a hammer.
I am eyeing some Enkies but i am going to try and find out tomorrow what offset will be flush with 245/40s. If i am going to roll my fenders i am going to use wide tires...
Burnstormer
02-14-2012, 01:14 AM
I think the evo 8 enkei wheels and evo 9 mr bbs wheels should accommodate a BBK due to their +38 offset and maybe a little bit cheaper since they are 17" wheels.
NFSLancerRA
02-14-2012, 08:34 AM
I think the evo 8 enkei wheels and evo 9 mr bbs wheels should accommodate a BBK due to their +38 offset and maybe a little bit cheaper since they are 17" wheels.
I would advise against this. Most of the BBK setups don't fit 17" wheels.
We will see what happens. I couldn't get my fenders rolled today because the guy who was going to do it wasn't there.
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