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View Full Version : ASC on or off for Auto X


AutoX_Ralliart
04-18-2012, 10:52 AM
As the title says, do u keep it on or off? All i can seem to find are MRs that argue between a short off or a long off (off/on vs. off/off) but since we dont have AYC i was just curious if the autox'ers keep it on or off. I felt it kick in a few times and im not sure what wouldve happened if it was off. thanks for the input

TrailBrake
04-18-2012, 11:47 AM
Turn the ASC off for any level of performance driving.

I've tracked my car in the dry, rain and snow, and in all circumstances, the car is far easier to instinctively control and throttle steer with the nanny safety net turned off.

Exyia
04-18-2012, 01:17 PM
definitely off unless you don't feel you're ready for it - which there is NO shame in admitting

ASC is worse if the RA's also have throttle cut when it comes in like the Evo's. Can't remember if they do or not

razorlab
04-18-2012, 01:37 PM
ASC is worse if the RA's also have throttle cut when it comes in like the Evo's. Can't remember if they do or not

They do. I almost got killed by a SUV because of that.

AutoX_Ralliart
04-18-2012, 01:37 PM
im not sure how it feels in the evo but on some sharp turns in the RA it felt like my car wanted to downshift even tho I was in manual. since my adrenaline was pumpin I didnt look at the dash but maybe it was the aforementioned cut. i havent autox enuff to declare definitively what it was or wasnt but i only really felt it on real sharp sweepers and towards the end of a 6 cone slalom

MTZL
04-18-2012, 01:52 PM
Start off with it ON. & once you feel you can handle the turns & speed/momentum then turn it off.

With it on, it will cut out your throttle once it senses traction lost.
You can feel it cutting out but once you let off the throttle a bit, you can get back on until it loses traction again.

With it off, you have to be very careful & know exactly how your RA behave to what input you are doing.

You definitely wants to be in the right gear, it helps with rotation & skid control.
I always downshift before the turn.
Limiting your steering angle & staying on the line will help you with speed.
Most auto x only require half the steering input.

Turning before the turn helps you with skid.

Exyia
04-18-2012, 02:51 PM
im not sure how it feels in the evo but on some sharp turns in the RA it felt like my car wanted to downshift even tho I was in manual. since my adrenaline was pumpin I didnt look at the dash but maybe it was the aforementioned cut. i havent autox enuff to declare definitively what it was or wasnt but i only really felt it on real sharp sweepers and towards the end of a 6 cone slalom

the SST won't downshift with high lateral load, so if it felt like it was, then it was probably ASC cutting in with throttle cut (thanks bryan for confirming - funny that I never felt it when triggering ASC on the Outlander test-drives)

the throttle cut sucks, but have an instructor provide input before you decide to cut it off. it might still be you overcooking the corner - which takes forever to correct if you learn it wrong, and wears out tires/brakes faster. if it isn't you overspeeding into the corner, then yes, ASC is holding you back and you're ready to cut it off

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 04:47 AM
They do. I almost got killed by a SUV because of that.

+1 It's frightening to push you foot floor, see that stupid traction control icon come on and have no power to get you out of trouble.

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 05:05 AM
I agree completely with the comments made by Exyia and MTZL.

In retrospect, I should have prefaced my comments with a note that these are just my personal views and biases. I have been lapping for the better part of a decade, and my previous car was near 400HP, RWD and had no traction or stability control. As my experience may not be the same as yours, and you should learn the basics first if required. I had the basics engrained in me by learning to track a car that wasn't very forgiving of mistake in form. Get it wrong in my old car at speed, especially on a wet track, and it would bite you.

Getting proper training for performance driving is a must. Learn the fundamentals on braking, steering, driving line, etc. You don't want to pickup and bad habits, and the RA's forgiving handling can mask mistakes in form more so than other cars.

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 05:16 AM
Another note, the brake setup in a stock RA isn't ideal for performance driving. This will become clear very soon.

Upgrading to a quality aftermarket pad is highly recommended. After that, you can look into high temp brake fluid & possibly stainless steel lines.

AutoX_Ralliart
04-19-2012, 05:40 AM
Yea i know what you mean in terms of learnin how to drive first. im still in the infancy of my autox knowledge, just tryin to soak everything up.

My first two events were novice schools as well as an upcoming evo phase 1 school so most of my dough is going into learning how to drive the car as opposed to what to add to it.

I am just engulfed with information and looking to see what works for others so i can always keep that in the back of my mind since i tend to be the type that looks 2-3 steps ahead while perfecting whats current

My main thought about the asc on vs off was that while learning how to drive, is it really beneficial to have this security blanket disguising the mistakes I mite be making? im not at the point yet where im worried about getting faster runs but more of focusing on getting cleaner runs

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 06:10 AM
I left the ASC on for my very first track day, shortly after I bought the RA. It was raining and this is my first car with any kind of traction or stability control. Basically I wanted to see what the ASC would do.

After I got more familiar with the handling of the RA, I saw that the ASC would kick in at certain corners, no matter how clean my technique was. I was frustrated that the car wouldn't do as it was told. At that point I turned it off. As you progress, eventually you want to be able to have a little bit of slide (not drift), and throttle steer. ASC won't let you do that.

As I have never done auto-x, so I don't know how much of a safety net ASC would provide in that type of situation. That said, it might be an idea to leave it on for a bit until you have the basics down pat, and then turn it off.

MTZL
04-19-2012, 09:00 AM
When I use the word "drift" people get bent out of shape so I refer to it as "Skid".

To learn to drive while skidding require basic driving before skidding.

Asc is going to help you learn without destroying your car from roll over or excessive power slide.

Pedal brake - Can be used to oversteer.
E-Brake - Can be used to control lateral skid.
Throttle - Can be used to under-steer or over-steer.

Steering - Very important while skidding. While it help to gain muscle memory for degree of turn & speed. Limiting your steering angle will help with alot of things.

Tip & tricks:
I started out trying different things with steering input, spent more time thinking about how to free my right hand for gear shifter & e-brake.
How to initiate the turn-in steering input to free my right hand & still effectively use the steering wheel & angle.

I dont think you can teach these things, you'd have to experience it first hand.
You need to be comfortable with the lateral weigh transfer while keeping your steering wheel angle relative to your actual wheel angle.

Once you try to drive fast thru corners you will eventually figure it out. ;)
I take it +1mph at a time when I was feeling out my RA. 30mph turn no brakes, 31mph turn no brakes, i hope you get the picture.

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 10:30 AM
Here are some books I found to be helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Track-Driving-Techniques-SpeedPro-Series/dp/184584355X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334856466&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Speed-Secrets-Complete-High-Performance/dp/0760340501/ref=pd_sim_b_1

That said, nothing beats seat time with a good instructor. There are also some fairly realistic simulators available now for game consoles and computers.

MTZL
04-19-2012, 04:16 PM
^Im more of a visual person, I read books but books can only teach you so much until you're in a hot seat, things you read goes out the window fast.

For me, I take the same corner +1 mph, remembering how much steering input, leg/ankle muscle memory on throttle or brake pedal if needed. I find it easier to learn by doing.

BravoZero
04-19-2012, 05:19 PM
I find it easier to learn by doing.

+1, same here.

Exyia
04-19-2012, 06:21 PM
I really don't see the point in books. it's 99.99999% seat time/practice

hell I improved 4 seconds each run at nationals. it's all about pushing yourself to do better through experience, and being open about constructive advice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tdOkVE6ao

TrailBrake
04-19-2012, 06:30 PM
As I said, nothing beats seat time :)

AutoX_Ralliart
04-19-2012, 07:53 PM
yea im definitely all in for seat time. its the waiting time inbetween events thats killing me. just soaking up info waitin to see what works for me

GAbOS
04-19-2012, 10:56 PM
I've learned a lot by reading and listening. Seat time is a given.

"in order to finish first, you must first finish"

Just saying.

TrailBrake
04-20-2012, 04:30 AM
For lapping, or any other hobby that I have been doing for a reasonable amount of time, if I can pick up just one point from experimenting, a comment from an instructor, or by simple observation - it has been a good day.

AutoX_Ralliart
04-20-2012, 04:49 AM
For lapping, or any other hobby that I have been doing for a reasonable amount of time, if I can pick up just one point from experimenting, a comment from an instructor, or by simple observation - it has been a good day.

+1

My very first run on a long course test and tune i ran 90sec and just listened to what the instructor told me to do and the second run i got 82sec. After that I was just pumped to rinse and repeat on every improvement he had told me

Exyia
04-20-2012, 08:04 AM
yea im definitely all in for seat time. its the waiting time inbetween events thats killing me. just soaking up info waitin to see what works for me

something I do in my offtime is watch other auto-x videos and try to read the track before they hit apex's. don't just sit and watch, see if you can see the course ahead like the person in the video is

other than that...yeah it gets pretty boring in-between events :o

TrailBrake
04-20-2012, 08:13 AM
something I do in my offtime is watch other auto-x videos and try to read the track before they hit apex's. don't just sit and watch, see if you can see the course ahead like the person in the video is

other than that...yeah it gets pretty boring in-between events :o

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that does that. I have in-car videos of the tracks I frequent on my BlackBerry, so I can mentally bone-up on the configuration before lapping days.