Boost Pill = more Knock?

[mikeszutu]

Hey guys,

I finally got around to installing a Ultimate Racing Boost Pill on my 2011 RA and did a GST Basemap Boost Pill reflash and, notice today I'm getting insane amounts of knock about 10-18 :eek: in 1500 RPM range with like 60 load. I'm not even hitting boost yet.. the heck is going on.

Anyway had any weird experiences like this? I'm starting to think it's the combination of the summer heat and bad fuel? I'm running 94 OCT at the moment and the 93 Oct version of the tune.

[AlphaKennyBody]

I'm not sure about your results but ...... some say that the UR pill isn't the same at the GST pill and people were having issues... Same goes for the AMS pill....

Therefore the "GST BOOSTPILL" not UR/AMS pill... Again some people have had luck some didn't.

Not sure where your located but if your run Chevron, it's terrible gas and have seen better results running Thrifty gas and Arco in the Evo/RA. Just saying....

Make sure your have the right map installed on the car.... and try again.

[tencents]

i'm using ams pill and i'm getting knocks at same load and rpm, but i'm only getting 1-2. 10-18 that doesn't seem right.. do you have any other mods?

[mikeszutu]

The only other mod I have is the HKS Hybrid Filter which shouldn't effected it much? Apparently Richard says that it's pretty much normal unless I decide to retard the timing in those sections.

Also doesn't help that GST no longer supports RA.

[GAbOS]

The issue with the GST pill, is you can't seem to get one, or at least, I can't. I've sent three emails and left two voice mails at the number they list on their site. They never respond. I'm not sure they want to do business anymore.

[razorlab]

Also doesn't help that GST no longer supports RA.

Can you elaborate on this?

[GAbOS]

Can you elaborate on this?

I already did above. ;)

The issue with the GST pill, is you can't seem to get one, or at least, I can't. I've sent three emails and left two voice mails at the number they list on their site. They never respond. I'm not sure they want to do business anymore.

[razorlab]

Oh.

I'm sure most know I'm no longer a part of GST.

I was thinking of just getting the boost pills made myself, haven't had the time to do it though.

[GAbOS]

Yeah, I remember reading about it somewhere. ;)

I was hoping to get the GST one, since that's what the base map uses, and seeing others have issues using other pills with it.

I wont more power! What would you suggest in the absence of the GST pill?

[Splattj]

I have the GST pill and I still had the same issue. Got the RA on the AWD dyno and found some lean revs that, after richening them up, cleared up the issue. I have a little black smoke from being a tad rich but all my knock is gone. The basemap is just that, a base. You should still get the car on the dyno since no two cars are identical. You can probably save a lot by tuning yourself with a Tatrix cable.

[GAbOS]

Thanks for the info. I do have my own, but never attempted tuning. :eek:

Be ready for tons of questions! lol

[mikeszutu]

Oh.

I'm sure most know I'm no longer a part of GST.

I was thinking of just getting the boost pills made myself, haven't had the time to do it though.

Hey Brian,

Yeah it's like almost next to impossible to get a reponse from GST about boost pill or get a hold of anyone there. That's why I decided to pick up a UR boost pill since they are located in Toronto.. hahaha..

It's weird how yesturday all was fine and barely any knock at same low rpms/load and, like once in a blue moon it would give me knocks like a mofo. Maybe I should make those sections in the map slightly rich.

[tencents]

bad batch of fuel?

[AlphaKennyBody]

Just buy it from their site... it's under the Evo X section..

and yes Do not pump Chevron, Run either Shell 91 or 76 91pump..... Only. Unless your on E85 =)

[GAbOS]

Just ordered a pill from UR. :)

[mikeszutu]

Just buy it from their site... it's under the Evo X section..

and yes Do not pump Chevron, Run either Shell 91 or 76 91pump..... Only. Unless your on E85 =)

In Canada we have 94 oct :)..
So far the car has been a lot better in terms of the knocksum. Richard has confirmed that the car will knock more in no boost mode if you're under 2k rpm.

[RalliNurse]

Just buy it from their site... it's under the Evo X section..

and yes Do not pump Chevron, Run either Shell 91 or 76 91pump..... Only. Unless your on E85 =)

Why not chevron?
How about arco?

[AlphaKennyBody]

Why not chevron?
How about arco?

Chevron is BAD... Every EVERY EVEEERRRYYYY car I've logged they tend to have a shit ton of Knock on Chevron.... Same day, ran it empty with no bars on the screen filled up on Shell and BAM no more know and gain it's LOSTED power back...

Arco is the same..... Too much knock so most likely mean 91 isn't really 91.

I personally with data with Recommend only Shell / 76. Shell first in my book

[richardh]

Just a note...

The OP is talking about insane knocksums at 60 load, 1500rpm. That'll have nothing to do with boost levels (60 load is not in boost). It's low rpm, low load.

High Octane Fuel Map changes don't come into it either - it's closed loop at 60 load, 1500rpm. The ECU is shooting for 14.7:1 based on front o2 sensor feedback.


This exact same thing happens on the original factory tune. In fact, it's a bit worse on factory tune, lol. Bryan's base map tune actually runs less advanced timing than stock in this region. We tested this by adding "mode23" logging tweaks to an otherwise stock ROM, then logging. Knocksums of 18-20 abounded! That was on Aussie 98RON.


Our engines are partial to reporting high knocksums in this region. Real tuners (ie. not me ;)) tell me that cylinder pressures aren't high enough for it to cause any damage. It's very unsightly in the logs, hard to get rid of... but it's not gonna explode.

Oh, and the ECU retards timing like crazy when it sees 15-20 knocksum... but that doesn't "fix" this type of knock - it just keeps on knockin'.

Driving in AUTO/NORMAL mode certainly walks right into this problem, as it loves to run the engine at 1500rpm on light throttle without downshifting. Yes, even in 5th and 6th.


For all I know, it's not even knock - it could be clutch packs rattling or something. :p


Hope that helps!

Rich

[bholm6]

This exact same thing happens on the original factory tune. In fact, it's a bit worse on factory tune, lol.

I was hoping you could elaborate on this please. I recently purchased a 09 RA and it has a CAI. The CEL is on and the code says "system lean". I'm assuming its because of the intake. I've been filling it up with 93 and noticing some knock. I'm considering going back to the stock intake but will that stop the knocking?

[RALM]

I was hoping you could elaborate on this please. I recently purchased a 09 RA and it has a CAI. The CEL is on and the code says "system lean". I'm assuming its because of the intake. I've been filling it up with 93 and noticing some knock. I'm considering going back to the stock intake but will that stop the knocking?

have you tried disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds, because modern vehicles computers are able to learn and addapt to small changes that are made to them.

[bholm6]

I have and it comes back on after driving for a bit. I'm thinking of taking it to a dealer but worried they'll give me crap for the mods.

[RALM]

you may to to cheack to make sure there are no leaks throughout the intake and vacuum lines first. And CAI are known for sucking up moistier in between the wheel wells and the bumpber.

[richardh]

I was hoping you could elaborate on this please. I recently purchased a 09 RA and it has a CAI. The CEL is on and the code says "system lean". I'm assuming its because of the intake. I've been filling it up with 93 and noticing some knock. I'm considering going back to the stock intake but will that stop the knocking?

You've been noticing some knock?

Just to clarify...

So you're data-logging? You're getting spikes in the knocksum column?

Rich

[Smeghead]

Usally with a CAI install you need a tune being that there is an increase in air being recieved in the engine if im not mistaken. Hence why your running lean. More air but fuel hasnt been increased to compensate

I was hoping you could elaborate on this please. I recently purchased a 09 RA and it has a CAI. The CEL is on and the code says "system lean". I'm assuming its because of the intake. I've been filling it up with 93 and noticing some knock. I'm considering going back to the stock intake but will that stop the knocking?

[bholm6]

You've been noticing some knock?

Just to clarify...

So you're data-logging? You're getting spikes in the knocksum column?

Rich

I have just been hearing it from the engine... I know these engines make some different noises than what I'm used to but I'm positive I know knocking when I hear it.

Usally with a CAI install you need a tune being that there is an increase in air being recieved in the engine if im not mistaken. Hence why your running lean. More air but fuel hasnt been increased to compensate

I plan on getting a tune very soon. I've been babying the car in order to prevent any damage. Does running lean automatically cause knock?

[richardh]

I'm sorry, you're hearing knock? Like, high-pitched ping-ping noises "like" ball bearings bouncing in your engine? "Like" tiny metallic pebbles getting kicked up onto the metal under-body?

Man, you really need to be data-logging. Or not driving.

Rich

[bholm6]

I'm sorry, you're hearing knock? Like, high-pitched ping-ping noises "like" ball bearings bouncing in your engine? "Like" tiny metallic pebbles getting kicked up onto the metal under-body?

Man, you really need to be data-logging. Or not driving.

Rich

"Thanks......noted". Seeing as this is not my first forced induction car I've had my share of engine issues, but what do I know?

[Smeghead]

the ralliart has loud injectors also could be those is it a constant tick near the front of the engine...and running lean is very bad unless you like new . try putting cai back to stock

[richardh]

"Thanks......noted". Seeing as this is not my first forced induction car I've had my share of engine issues, but what do I know?

Apologies. Hope you get it fixed.

Rich

[bholm6]

Apologies. Hope you get it fixed.

Rich

No harm done. I'm still learning on the RA, its a lot different from my past vehicles.