Chinese Knock-off of Tactrix OP 2.0

[AVENGER]

MODERATOR NOTE: This product is NOT manufactured, sold or supported by Tactrix. It is a Chinese Knock-off with pirated firmware.

Ummmm WHAT???!!!!:eek:

If this is correct,,, I may buy a pallet of them..

[AVENGER]

It's been a while since I've posted here, but someone,,,, anyone,,, tell me,,, should I take one for the team and order one of these??

[Ripsco]

It's been a while since I've posted here, but someone,,,, anyone,,, tell me,,, should I take one for the team and order one of these??

That is an awesome price! Wish I would have seen this before I ordered my Tactrix cable and paid $170. Only thing that kind of throws me off is that in the pictures it is missing the logo on the front. Other thing it's from China, so might be a Tactrix knock off. However for that price I would give it a shot. I actually might order one this Friday, just to see if its legit. Thanks for sharing this link!

[AVENGER]

That is an awesome price! Wish I would have seen this before I ordered my Tactrix cable and paid $170. Only thing that kind of throws me off is that in the pictures it is missing the logo on the front. Other thing it's from China, so might be a Tactrix knock off. However for that price I would give it a shot. I actually might order one this Friday, just to see if its legit. Thanks for sharing this link!

No problem..
It's a bit unnerving to me also. It does say "Tactrix Inc." on it and when I think about it,, like most of our electronics nowadays, it's probably made in China anyway. I know on the Tactrix site it says "designed, manufactured, assembled, and tested in San Francisco, USA", BUT I guarantee that the printed circuit board that's inside it is made in China..

I think I'm gonna give it a try.. It says 15 - 26 days for shipping but who cares, the shipping is free also..

[AVENGER]

Update*** Ok, I just ordered one.. Fingers, toes and butt cheeks crossed...:D

[Burngeart09]

I have one..if you want it, offer mem a convincing price, and its yours..The one i have, I dont use or need anymore, so its up for grabs.

[AllWhiteErythng]

Update*** Ok, I just ordered one.. Fingers, toes and butt cheeks crossed...:D

I have the feeling something went down with Tactrixs' supplier/builder in China and they decided to cut out the middle man and sell directly. China has copyright laws, but rarely imposes them (especially if the complainant is foreign) so it's quite common to have your product stolen after a few batches are produced and they have all the knowledge on how to continue production.

My .02 is that if this is the case (I'm not saying it is), they got what they paid for. Companies that go outside the country for cheap labor and manufacturing to increase their bottom line deserve to have their sh|t stolen.

[echo4papa]

I have one..if you want it, offer mem a convincing price, and its yours..The one i have, I dont use or need anymore, so its up for grabs.

If a "convincing price" is the same as this list price, I'll bite, otherwise I think I'll give this one a shot.

[AVENGER]

I have the feeling something went down with Tactrixs' supplier/builder in China and they decided to cut out the middle man and sell directly. China has copyright laws, but rarely imposes them (especially if the complainant is foreign) so it's quite common to have your product stolen after a few batches are produced and they have all the knowledge on how to continue production.

My .02 is that if this is the case (I'm not saying it is), they got what they paid for. Companies that go outside the country for cheap labor and manufacturing to increase their bottom line deserve to have their sh|t stolen.

Yes, I agree with this..

[AllWhiteErythng]

Update*** Ok, I just ordered one.. Fingers, toes and butt cheeks crossed...:D

Receive it yet? Interested to see if it works :confused:

[echo4papa]

Judging by the estimated shipping time, he won't get it until early to mid November.

[AVENGER]

It's still saying that it's on it's way..
I promise I'll give you guys a full report once it arrives.

[AVENGER]

It's being sent via China Post Airmail....
What could POSSIBLY go wrong??...??? :D:D

[zeRep85]

Judging by the estimated shipping time, he won't get it until early to mid November.

It's being sent via China Post Airmail....
What could POSSIBLY go wrong??...??? :D:D

HA! i wont be surprised if you dont see it until March 2015!

If the package gets stuck in customs who knows how long it will take!

I had a package take close to 5 months before i saw the tracking status change.

zeRep

[AVENGER]

HA! i wont be surprised if you dont see it until March 2015!

If the package gets stuck in customs who knows how long it will take!

I had a package take close to 5 months before i saw the tracking status change.

zeRep

It's weird, somethings ship super fast. My wife ordered 4 phone cases from aliexpress and they came from China also... She got them in 4 friggin days.. I couldn't believe it... So I looked at the tracking number and sure AS shit they came from China alright....

With my luck, the plane that my package is on will mysteriously disappear over the ocean.. LOL

[zeRep85]

My wife ordered 4 phone cases from aliexpress and they came from China also... She got them in 4 friggin days.. I couldn't believe it...


AH WHA! That is crazy.

They must have borrowed the [Insert Secret Government Aircraft Here] to make that shipment!

zeRep

[AVENGER]

AH WHA! That is crazy.

They must have borrowed the [Insert Secret Government Aircraft Here] to make that shipment!

zeRep

aaahaaHAAAAAAAA!! :D

[MikeyPSF]

Hello everyone. I’m Mike, one half of Tactrix. I wanted to comment on this thread and make myself available for questions if anyone has any. Sorry for the lengthy first post but here goes....


“Other thing it's from China, so might be a Tactrix knock off.”

We have one in hand and it’s absolutely a Chinese clone complete with a random assortment of hand soldered parts to reduce cost where the counterfeiters guess it won’t matter, and with chip numbers hand ground off with a dremel tool so that other thieves can’t copy their copy.


“should I take one for the team and order one of these??”

Which team would that be? Would that be the Mitsubishi community? We like to think that our company is as much part of that team as each of us that make up this small company. We’ve offered a unique and affordable product for years which many people have used to tune their cars in an open non-proprietary way. Colby started working on this product when the only existing company making a Subaru tuning tool at the time wouldn’t sell to him because he wasn’t an approved tuner. Do you want to be on the team that can only access this type of technology through authorized tuners? Do you want to be part of a team that can’t share this type of tool amongst friends because the only tool available is one where each unit is locked to a VIN? If saving a few bucks by purchasing from those stealing from a small local company is helping your ‘team’ then, for the sake of all those here who benefit from the innovations of small scale American producers, I hope we can find some voices in this community who see it differently. I know I personally have a number of parts on my car, my motorcycle, and even non-automotive hobby components/tools that were made possible by small companies in this country taking a risk to bring something to their respective community. We’ve never tried to squeeze every last dollar out of our customers. We could easily link our product to one VIN but we don’t. If you want to buy an OpenPort 2.0 to share amongst a group of friends, you can totally do that without any issue. We want to support the home hobbyist and we hope that they’ll feel like they’re getting a fair deal by supporting our company in this effort.


“Wish I would have seen this before I ordered my Tactrix cable and paid $170.”

We thank you for your purchase. If you and many other of our customers hadn’t purchased our cable for $169 (price hasn’t increased a dollar since we first introduced it) there would be no EcuFlash. While we give away EcuFlash as one of many programs that work with our hardware, it’s the sale of that hardware that makes it possible for us to spend the time working on the reflashing software. If there was a cheap Chinese product to begin with, we would have never developed this ourselves.


“I have the feeling something went down with Tactrixs' supplier/builder in China and they decided to cut out the middle man and sell directly. “

While that definitely does happen in many cases with some companies, that's actually not what happened here. Our board builder is a small company in Washington state. Our company use to be located nearby, but we relocated to California because the owner’s wife was working on a project for the VA in SF. We still use that same board builder in Washington because we have a good relationship with them, and like us, they’re a pretty small company. Not as small as us, but still small enough :) The final assembly, programming, testing, and shipping is all done in our California office. The circuit board in this clone is a copy, but not from the same template. If someone really cares about the details of how to tell, let me know when you have a unit in front of you and I can point out the differences. Copying a circuit board is pretty easy though and there isn’t anything you can really do about protecting it since it’s just a bunch of physical connections. Even if you have to grind through a few layers, those connections can mapped out pretty easily. The issue here is that in addition to the circuit board, they’re using stolen firmware, software, and our company name.


“My .02 is that if this is the case (I'm not saying it is), they got what they paid for. Companies that go outside the country for cheap labor and manufacturing to increase their bottom line deserve to have their sh|t stolen.”

I don’t know if I would go so far as to say deserve, but if you give someone else that much access, you should expect that it could happen.


“My wife ordered 4 phone cases from aliexpress and they came from China also...”

That’s a good item to order from China if you want a few designs and you don’t particularly care about the build quality. It’s important to understand what we’re talking about here isn’t just a close copy of a physical item based on a company being inspired by our design. This isn’t a knockoff iPhone cable that is functionally equivalent to the Apple product, and a good choice to replace your lost cable that came with your iPhone. This is stealing a circuit design, using our company name, stealing firmware, and providing copies of our software for use with this counterfeit hardware. The reason they’re able to sell this item so cheaply is that they’re not doing any of the work to create the hardware, firmware, or software. They’re still relying on your continued use of our software to reflash your Mitsubishi. Before you install our software, you are agreeing to our licensing terms, which we intentionally keep as brief as possible so as to be easily readable. These terms include:

“2. When used with a hardware interface, the software is to be used solely with OpenPort vehicle interfaces from Tactrix Inc. or other officially licensed interfaces. These sales fund the project development and keep the cost of such a tool reasonable.”

If saving $100 makes the difference between being able to complete your multi-thousand dollar project car, and ECU repair/replacement is something you feel comfortable dealing with, then you should probably roll the dice and go with the stolen goods. If you’re confident that the support you’ll receive from Guangdong is all you’ll ever need, then this may be the deal you’ve waited for. I can say for certain that not all users will be happy with the results as we’ve inspected this hardware and identified several issues with it.

To those who consider the value proposition and still decide to spend their hard earned dollars with us, we appreciate your support as we continue to develop new EcuFlash features and add compatibility for more vehicle models. As long as we can fund our company through the sale of the hardware we’ve designed, our EcuFlash software will remain free as will our support.

Thanks for reading,
-Mike

[AVENGER]

Dear MikeyPSF,

So, what am I supposed to do with this information? Feel bad that as a consumer I chose a lower price? Quite frankly, alot of us consumers do that very thing these days. I'm not made of money anymore. I'm 40 years old and with the way the economy hit the industry I was in for 22 years, I find myself completely starting over. I now shop around for items I choose to purchase.
To answer your question about "taking one for the team",, I meant that figuratively,, obviously..
I'm very sorry that you take this so personally and I understand that you look at something like this as affecting your bottom line, but as a business man (I presume), you should be looking at this as an opportunity to compete. There is reason many companies outsource the manufacture of their products..... To keep prices as low as possible. This country has not made it easy for any company to manufacture or do business, the costs of labor, liability insurance,, TAXES,,,,, the list goes on and on and on. You might want to consider outsourcing a little bit yourselves.. It doesn't make you a sellout..
If the unit fails to do what I purchased it to do,,, that is my problem.

I found that unit online,, and I shared what I found.

[MikeyPSF]

Well, I'm really hoping I can phrase this in a way that doesn't start an internet pissing match, because that doesn't get anyone anywhere, but your statements seem at odds with each other. Earlier when someone else said:

"Companies that go outside the country for cheap labor and manufacturing to increase their bottom line deserve to have their sh|t stolen."

you said:

"Yes, I agree with this.."

but now you're saying:

"You might want to consider outsourcing a little bit yourselves.."

So we should outsource to be more competitive but we deserve what we get if we outsource? How do you reconcile those two statements?

I'm not telling you what to do with the information I gave, but people seem to be debating how this Chinese unit came to be and that it was probably our fault for working with a bad manufacturer. I'm here to set the story straight and to answer questions if someone has any.

"This country has not made it easy for any company to manufacture or do business, the costs of labor, liability insurance,, TAXES,,,,,"

Because the government made TAXES high it's okay to steal? What tax rate would you need to see to only buy non-stolen products?

I understand what you mean by trying to save money. I try to save money wherever I can as well. I own a 2002 WRX, a 1998 Oldsmobile van, and a 1996 Suzuki motorcycle, all of which combined wouldn't equal the value of your car. (I know, you're thinking the Oldsmobile Silhouette is the Cadillac of minvans, but trust me, this isn't the van with the resale value you're thinking....) I'm not the CEO of anything. I'm 41 and I've started my career over at least three times. My dollars mean a lot to me. What I want to make clear is that this isn't just a copy inspired by the physical observation of some part. This isn't a Chinese knockoff of Cobb swaybar that is pretty similar to that original swaybar. This is a Chinese clone falsely using our name and relying on your continued use of our firmware and our software which represents thousands of hours of our work.

So again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do with this information. Obviously what you do with your dollars is make the choice you think are right for you, your family, and those companies you want to support. I'm letting you know the full story and it's up to you what you'll do with the information. You can disagree with me that using stolen information/software/firmware is wrong but you can't fault me for wanting to set the record straight when it's being speculated that we've been dealing with dishonest outsourced labor and therefor gotten what we deserve.

Again, thanks for taking the time to read as brevity isn't my strongpoint.

-Mike

[AVENGER]

Outsourcing is ALWAYS a risk,, and I believe that any business or manufacturer MUST take risks in order to survive.
THAT'S how I reconcile that statement.... No need to agree with me Mike. My opinions aren't up for debate.

Furthermore NOTHING in my statement about TAXES being high said ANYTHING about condoning theft.

Personally I never speculated a damn thing about how this clone came to be,,, but let's put this into perspective. The product exists.. Maybe it's time to see how your price can become a little more affordable.
There is one reason and one reason alone that your product has cornered the market for ecu flashing especially on EVO-x and Ralliarts. It's the best and from what I've seen,,, it's the only one that exists that can flash these particular cars on the "private consumer market". I'm not talking about tuning shops..

By the way,, my car,, is not a multi-thousand dollar experiment like some of the others I've seen. I'm just looking to do a conservative tune.
I'm also married,, so I have HER chirping in my ear if I spent too much,, even on cookies or delicious cakes..:mad:

[AVENGER]

By the way Mike, I'm not looking to make enemies with you,, not in any way, shape or form.. I'm sure you are a great guy and by all means may GOD BLESS your company with a prosperous future.
This whole discussion for me is basically a "money talks" matter.
I can, however guarantee that when my financial matters get back to the way they use to be,,,,, and they will,,, I will be buying your product anyway.

[MikeyPSF]

"Maybe it's time to see how your price can become a little more affordable."

I don't personally see it that way but that's a valid argument. To play devil's advocate, what's the dollar amount that you think gets someone to the point of feeling like using stolen hardware/software/firmware isn't okay anymore? I guess to me, it's either okay to use stolen stuff or it isn't and us adjusting our price isn't going to make those who haven't bought our product up until now feel like they can support us if they can only save $20 dollars more. To put it as straightly as I can, there is no way we can even come close to the dollar amount the counterfeit Alibaba unit is being sold for unless we start some elaborate licensing and fees around our future software releases, which isn't the experience we want our customers to have. We want people who have trusted us enough to buy our hardware to be able to use whatever version of our software they want, and for them to have free upgrades for life. We make our money on the hardware and our software still supports the hardware we made in 2005. We even support OpenPort 2.0 units that were purchased second hand years ago. If they new owner breaks off the USB connector by jamming their knee in to it while it's plugged in to the OBD2 port, we try to fix it for free. We can't do free repairs, answer questions all day, spend countless hours developing software to give away, and sell hardware for the same cost as a Chinese manufacturer who doesn't have to do any firmware/hardware/software development so we aren't going to try. We'll keep doing what we do for as long as we can do it. If at some point we can no longer do it, we'll move on to something new.


"By the way Mike, I'm not looking to make enemies with you"

Same here. For the sake of starting the weekend off on the right foot, lets just agree to disagree on a number of points. Just to show you there are no hard feelings, if you find your pirated OpenPort doesn't work as you'd hoped, send me a message and I'll set you up with a discount :)

[AVENGER]

One last thing Mike, and then I'm done with this conversation.

what's the dollar amount that you think gets someone to the point of feeling like using stolen hardware/software/firmware isn't okay anymore?

I did not do a google search for Tactrix openport 2.0 with intentions of finding it on aliexpress and buying stolen hardware/software/firmware.
You really shouldn't direct that statement or question toward the consumer. I am not the one that stole your technology. I or anyone else would have no way of knowing if you made any deals overseas with another company to manufacture your devices. Again,,, I was not speculating on how this clone/knock-off/counterfeit came to be.

Anyway,, I appreciate your offer of a discount, but it is not necessary.
However,, if you are in the discounting mood,, you can always peruse the forum and message someone in need of one and offer them the discount that you offered me.

If the device I ordered does not serve me as expected, I will gladly order one at full price to show good faith to you.:)

[MikeyPSF]

I did not do a google search for Tactrix openport 2.0 with intentions of finding it on aliexpress and buying stolen hardware/software/firmware.

I really didn't think you did. My point here is to let people know it is counterfeit and what the facts are, not to try and dissect how this unit came about or how you found it. We agree that is irrelevant. Look at us finding common ground :)


You really shouldn't direct that statement or question toward the consumer.

I'm not exactly sure what statement or question you're referring to, but I think it's totally fair for me to clear up confusion when it's being debated on a public forum that a product may or may not be legitimate or that we may or may not have been working with crappy overseas suppliers that may have ripped us off.

I am not the one that stole your technology.

Agreed. Not until you install our software after agreeing to the simple license terms are you involved in any stealing.

“2. When used with a hardware interface, the software is to be used solely with OpenPort vehicle interfaces from Tactrix Inc. or other officially licensed interfaces. These sales fund the project development and keep the cost of such a tool reasonable.”


If the device I ordered does not serve me as expected, I will gladly order one at full price to show good faith to you.:)

Sounds good. Thanks for the discussion and happy Halloween!

-Mike

[AVENGER]

Good discussion my friend.. Happy Halloween to you also..:D

[echo4papa]

It's a shame, as I was looking forward to using the basemaps on my Ralliart for Christmas with this less expensive option. Knowing it's production amounts to theft of the work that other members of the community have put in, I can not, in good faith, support this product.

I'll just have to wait a little longer and order the real deal.

Thanks for setting the record straight, Mike.

[MikeyPSF]

Thanks for setting the record straight, Mike.

No problem and thanks for your support. Much appreciated.

[Drew]

All,
I appreciate the healthy discussion, without getting in to too much of an argument. I will try to stay unbiased in this discussion, even though I think some of the points suggesting the Openport should be built offshore to reduce price (and correspondingly, most likely quality) is absolutely ridiculous.

MikeyPSF,
I have edited the thread title to make absolutely certain this product is not confused with your company, and to clearly state it is a knock-off with stolen firmware.

!!!!!!!WARNING!!! MY OPINION ALERT!!!!!
Considering I am a Design Engineer by trade, this saddens me greatly. This type of thing happens all the time, but do not let yourself become ignorant or numb to the fact that it is ABSOLUTELY theft, and there is a reason that it is clearly illegal in the United States. A simple analogy would be farmer A who has raised and fed his beef cows for years, pouring money in to feed, water and proper care for the animals. Then, Farmer B comes along, steals half the cows that Farmer A has spent a great amount of time and money raising for market, only to sell his beef cheaper than Farmer A could possibly sell his beef for, considering the costs that he has dedicated to providing you the beef.
Personally, I'm buying beef from Farmer A.

Off the corny farm analogy, there is no way I would flash my car with a chinese knock-off Tactrix, and risk bricking my ECU.

[Markspd6]

Damn, looks im gonna be the one to play devils advocate here.. Now if im wrong, ill be fine with being corrected, cuz im not much of a tech or legal genius... But,

Isnt your product a basic violation of the user agreement we make with mitsu when we buy their cars? And you as a company cant afford to accept liability for any problems that arise from using it, and thats why the software is free? I say this only because installing your software, is an instant warranty killer.

Sorry to put it out like that, cuz i appreciate your contributions to the scene as well, im only trying to keep a little perspective on the situation.

And serioulsy thanks for the mitsu unit/software as my last car is a mazda speed6 and the only option is the AP, so cobb has an absolute stranglehold on the tuning scene bacause of that..

[echo4papa]

I don't know about you, but I don't have a user agreement with Mitsu, I purchased a car. I'm the owner, not a user, not lessee.

I do have a warranty with them, that they can void if I make a modification to the vehicle that causes damage, but that isn't the same thing.

[Markspd6]

I don't know about you, but I don't have a user agreement with Mitsu, I purchased a car. I'm the owner, not a user, not lessee.

I do have a warranty with them, that they can void if I make a modification to the vehicle that causes damage, but that isn't the same thing.

Actually thats the exact same thing... You agree not to mod the programming or bye bye warranty, thats a user agreement..

[echo4papa]

We might be getting into a semantics argument here, but I think there's a difference between a user agreement, where you are agreeing to terms in order to benefit as an end user of something (typically software for example), but a warranty is an agreement for service so long as you don't break the conditions of the agreement.

Yes, they are both contracts, but there are subtle difference between the two that make them more applicable to certain situations.

Overall point being, they really don't have anything to do with the theft of designs/equipment in this case. I'm sure Tactrix has products & completed ops coverage as part of their CGL coverage, but that wouldn't cover liability from their product if you blow your engine up because of a bad tune. That isn't something they are liable for either way. Remember, you aren't running their software in your car, you are using their cable and software to swap tunes. If the tune causes damage to your car, again, that isn't something they are liable for anyway.

[Drew]

We can talk semantics all we want. But building and selling something that is a clear violation of copyright laws, and a clear theft of intellectual property under the guise that it was built by, and equivalent to the product made by the company you have labeled it as is immoral and illegal. If I build a kit car from scratch from parts I have lying around, and sell it to you as a Mitsubishi Lancer RalliArt, I will go to jail without passing go or collecting $200. That is a violation of the law, and a theft of intellectual property. It is not illegal or immoral to violate a warranty. That is a decision you make on your own, from your own free will, and is no way affecting anyone but you. Those are drastically different scenarios.

Having said that, I do see, to a certain point, what Mark is saying. In a quick glance on Tactrix sight, I did not see any warnings that use of their hardware or software may not only void your warranty, but violate federal emissions laws. That might be a disclaimer that they want to add, unless it is already there, and I just missed it.

[MikeyPSF]

MikeyPSF, I have edited the thread title to make absolutely certain this product is not confused with your company, and to clearly state it is a knock-off with stolen firmware.

Thanks very much doing that Drew and for your comments.


Isnt your product a basic violation of the user agreement we make with mitsu when we buy their cars?

Good question but this isn't actually a violation. The federal law that governs this is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. From this site (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html) which I encourage you to visit for more info:

"Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."


And you as a company cant afford to accept liability for any problems that arise from using it, and thats why the software is free?

There are lots of companies that sell software similar in function to what we give away. For instance, for Mazda you can use our OpenPort 2.0 hardware with Versatuner ($399 for the software locked to one VIN) or MazdaEdit ($250 for the software locked to one VIN). Selling vs. giving away the software doesn't change anything other than simplifying the distribution of our software for our customers. By the way, both of those prices are for software only, which helps put in perspective what one gets in terms of value for purchasing our hardware for $169 and getting free software equivalent to those Mazda products except that you can use ours with as many cars as you want, which allows a lot of professional tuners to create a small business around their tuning abilities all for only a $169 investment along with their hard work of actually tuning.


I say this only because installing your software, is an instant warranty killer.

That's not exactly true. Any dealership might give you varying amounts of pushback on a warranty claim once you start modifying the car, but reflashing an ECU isn't a blanket void of the warranty. In reality, very few people will ever simply reflash their ECU without also making mechanical changes. In fact, most of us will quickly approach the point where we make enough physical changes such that if the motor destructs, we probably won't try to make a motor warranty claim because it's obvious to us and the dealership that we've pushed things beyond what the manufacturer intended. But if you reflash your motor and then brakes fail, it would be hard for a dealership to say that they won't repair your brakes under warranty because you've installed a new CAI and updated the ECU to take advantage of it.

Also, in the many years that I've answered customer calls and emails I have never once had someone say: "My dealership denied my warranty claim because I used your product to reflash my car."


Having said that, I do see, to a certain point, what Mark is saying. In a quick glance on Tactrix sight, I did not see any warnings that use of their hardware or software may not only void your warranty, but violate federal emissions laws. That might be a disclaimer that they want to add, unless it is already there, and I just missed it.

Good point Drew. It's included in the previously mentioned software license you must agree to before it can be installed on your computer. From that agreement:

"...modification of your ECU's software will most likely void your drivetrain warranty from the manufacturer and violate emission control regulations in some regions."

That's a wide blanket statement we have to include, but in practice an ECU modification alone is unlikely to cause you warranty headaches. I say that without spending extensive time searching for end user comments about specific experiences but again, as someone who fields dozens of emails per day for years and years, I've never had anyone alert me to any warranty issues they've had.

[Chaz17]

Don't support knock-off, ripped-off crap.

Spend a few extra dollars and support the companies that support us.

It's $100 more. Not like you're saving a few grand. You drive a $30k car, save up and do it right.

[RalliNurse]

^overall...what he said! Just to give you guys a scenario without diving into the topic too much...some guy bought Chinese made UICP for his X and brought it to RRE for a tune...couple of hard runs and in the middle of the tune his UICP cracked in half...I don't know what happen to his X...I presume nothing bad happens...but the lesson to the story here is...all these parts for the car is what I consider "mission-critical" parts...if you try to cut corners and save a few bucks...you'll spending a lot more down the road...that's just my 2 pennies...

[netracerx]

I'm relatively new to the board, and an absolute noob at tuning/modification, so there's my disclaimer to my opinion about this.

Having said that, many (but not most) car owners who turn to tuning/modification are doing so under a tight budget. It's something we do to personalize our vehicles and get the performance/look that characterizes us as drivers.

When I go "window shopping" for parts, tools and upgrades, at the end of the day the dollar (as it does for most people) wins. I'm not saying that I willingly and knowingly will steal to do this, but if Part A is $100 cheaper than Part B (which is official) then I'm more than likely going with Part A. That $100 is a lot of money, and can go toward the next part to support the modification I wish to make.

We've established the Chinese part is a knock-off illegal clone, and that the Tatrix software license specifically prohibits using unsanctioned/unofficial OpenPorts with the software (we've defined that as stealing). To someone getting into this for the first time, they may not know that. Yes, ignorance still does not excuse the act, but I just want to point that out because it does affect their decision on which OpenPort they decide to buy. Even those that do know may still go for the option $100 less because it puts more of their budget to use elsewhere on options they may not have wiggle room in.

My Ralliart came from the dealer with an AccessPort (thanks Don Herring!). If it hadn't, I probably would have purchased an OpenPort instead. $500 vs. $169... that's a sizable difference in cash expenditure. Yeah, someone could say "but you're getting the expertise and support of a large tuning house" but at the end of the day, money's money, honey.

Now faced with a similar decision, money's money.

I only offer this long-winded post to put this thought into everyone's minds, especially Tactrix, Inc.: The rabbit's out of the bag. Regardless of whether it's legitimate or not, someone's undercutting you and will get away with it. Instead of "hoping" the community will trade legitimate parts for dollars spent, we all know the consumer will hold that only to a point. At the end of the day, dollars matter. I think, and I may be wrong (scream at the noob if it makes you feel better), but someone else was trying to make the point I'm making now: maybe it's time to reconsider your price point on the OpenPort? I understand it funds development, and you have overhead to consider, but you are being undercut and should signal the community you're willing to see that and offer an olive branch to them in exchange for their continued patronage.

Long story short: Everyone faces an opportunity cost for the things they want. Some have a higher ceiling on that cost than others, so can throw money at the better things without question. Others have a lower ceiling. This is no longer about brand loyalty but now about price point.

That's my long-winded $0.02.

And remember, I'm a NOOB so what do I know. :D

[Drew]

NetracerX, again, I am trying to stay unbiased. But it just so happens that I work for a contract manufacturer that builds PCBAs, and often have had to deal with off-shoring concerns.

First, let's ignore the morality for a moment. We will get back to that. What you said, I don't necessarily disagree with. If I am looking at a boost gauge, and I don't care the brand, I am looking for cheap and functional. The same can be said for strut tower braces, spoilers, and a multitude of other things. But here is where the stick is. I would agree with you IF, and that is a big IF the options were equivalent. There are tons of Chinese knock-off items that we may already own, not knowing. But would you buy a turbocharger that is known to be built of sub-standart quality, and bolt it on to your car? Would you buy TC-SST fluid from a Chinese vendor that you knew was not the factory equivalent, and put it in your transmission? It is a MUCH different issue when you are cutting corners on something that could cause severe damage to your car. The knock-off turbo comes apart? Hello major damage. The knock-off fluid overheat or damage your transmission? Hello major damage. This knock-off tactrix brick your ECU, or even worse, burn your factory wiring harness? Hello major damage!!! No one has used one of these to determine if they are "equivalent", but I can assure you, having seen no less than 300 different PCBAs in their domestic vs offshore forms, the quality isn't anywhere near comparable. I'm not telling anyone to use or not use anything. But don't make it sound like there's little risk to cut corners on things that could do major damage to your car.

Now, back to morality. It IS stealing. I have no clue where notions like these come from....

The rabbit's out of the bag. Regardless of whether it's legitimate or not, someone's undercutting you and will get away with it. Instead of "hoping" the community will trade legitimate parts for dollars spent, we all know the consumer will hold that only to a point. At the end of the day, dollars matter.

The product exists.. Maybe it's time to see how your price can become a little more affordable.


Should Tactrix try to stay competitive in the market? Absolutely. But to say that someone stealing their product, and offering it cheaper is a reason to re-evaluate their prices is insane. If either one of you gents were selling your OEM wheels for, let's say $400, and I told you that I can give the kid that lives down the block from you $200 to go steal them off your car for me, would that persuade you to lower your price? And that analogy is using two things that are identical, either way me getting legitimate OEM wheels. Buying this thing from China is an unknown quantity, that I would personally be very surprised if it even remotely close to equivalent in function, much less quality.

I sincerely hope that any of you gents that has purchased one of those things do not end up damaging your cars.

[MikeyPSF]

I'm not saying that I willingly and knowingly will steal to do this, but if Part A is $100 cheaper than Part B (which is official) then I'm more than likely going with Part A. That $100 is a lot of money, and can go toward the next part to support the modification I wish to make.

Sure, if two parts are equal but one is $100 less, we'd all go with the cheaper part. Like if one fan belt is identical to the dimensions of the OEM fan belt but it's half price, that's okay to purchase because it's an equal part made by examining the dimensions of the belt needed to fit that application, not by stealing the technology to make that belt.


We've established the Chinese part is a knock-off illegal clone, and that the Tatrix software license specifically prohibits using unsanctioned/unofficial OpenPorts with the software (we've defined that as stealing). To someone getting into this for the first time, they may not know that. Yes, ignorance still does not excuse the act, but I just want to point that out because it does affect their decision on which OpenPort they decide to buy. Even those that do know may still go for the option $100 less because it puts more of their budget to use elsewhere on options they may not have wiggle room in.

I think we can all agree that having more money in your pocket is the primary motivation to buy stolen goods. They tend to be cheaper :) As for wiggle room, I don't know what to say to that. We're not talking about medications or clothes for your kids to wear to school. We're talking about modifying your car. If buying nice rims that were stolen off your neighbor's car is the only way you can get those rims, then maybe you should figure out how to make the old rims work.


My Ralliart came from the dealer with an AccessPort (thanks Don Herring!). If it hadn't, I probably would have purchased an OpenPort instead. $500 vs. $169... that's a sizable difference in cash expenditure. Yeah, someone could say "but you're getting the expertise and support of a large tuning house" but at the end of the day, money's money, honey.

Now faced with a similar decision, money's money.


That's a poor analogy. If you decide to do your own tuning or to work with a remote tuner instead of purchasing an Accessport, you aren't doing so with a hacked Accessport.


I only offer this long-winded post to put this thought into everyone's minds, especially Tactrix, Inc.: The rabbit's out of the bag. Regardless of whether it's legitimate or not, someone's undercutting you and will get away with it. Instead of "hoping" the community will trade legitimate parts for dollars spent, we all know the consumer will hold that only to a point. At the end of the day, dollars matter. I think, and I may be wrong (scream at the noob if it makes you feel better), but someone else was trying to make the point I'm making now: maybe it's time to reconsider your price point on the OpenPort? I understand it funds development, and you have overhead to consider, but you are being undercut and should signal the community you're willing to see that and offer an olive branch to them in exchange for their continued patronage.

I'll offer you the same question I posed to the previous poster who suggested a price cut is in order: what's the price point that will get someone to not buy a stolen product? We can all find something else to do with $100 on our cars. If you're telling me this is the linch pin in someone's build such that buying a counterfeit item to save $100 is the only way they can make it happen, then I'm going to say that I don't buy that argument.

And suggesting that we need to offer an 'olive branch' suggests that we need to make peace with the community here. I don't really see us as being at war with this community so we're going to let our track record stand as it is. We simply can't compete on price with someone who has stolen our design, company name, firmware, software, and is using Chinese labor to build what we make here in the US. We're not talking about an astronomical sum of money here. If ethics can be bought for $100 or less, then that isn't a sale we're going to win in by dropping our price slightly. If your boss came to you and said we found someone from outside the US who we can have do your job for less money and we can avoid some labor laws, would you offer a reduction in your pay as an 'olive branch'?


And remember, I'm a NOOB so what do I know. :D

You don't need to have a lot of car experience to understand the issue here. I'm betting your mom doesn't know a lot about Ralliarts but she might still understand the ethics in this discussion.

[netracerx]

Disclaimer: I'm providing opinion for the sake of working this argument through, and at the end of the day it is solely my opinion.

Here's the problem I see: we have no gauge of the actual quality of the product currently being made in China. No one's tested it yet and given testimonial of its build quality and functionality. It may end up being the equivalent of a functional Chinese Apple knockoff cable, or it may be so fraught with defects it fries the car at the first powerup of the device. We don't know yet.

Therefore, we cannot make the argument of "would you buy a Chinese made product that is not equivalent." We do not know if it is yet or not.

I'm making the argument on the assumption, for the sake of argument, that it is equivalent or at least near enough to be largely functional compared to the OEM part. That's the concern that I would have if I were the owner of a company which makes its living off of a product and found out someone found a way to make that same product for cheaper, regardless of morality or even legality. Especially when it comes to Chinese made parts.

Tactrix has one of two paths they can take. They can dig their heels in and say "either buy our products or suffer" (harshly said, but I'm going with how bigger companies usually react) or they can admit to the possibility they may lose business to a near-equivalent product that they know their potential customer base may opt for solely on price alone and adjust their offerings. Especially if word gets out the knockoff is just as good.

Think about the computer you're probably responding to my posts on. IBM waged a similar battle in the early 80s and lost, because someone figured out how to reverse engineer their product and sell a similar product at a lower price. IBM tried to win customers on brand loyalty alone, but it lost them customer in the end.

Again, I'm arguing solely to argue a hotpoint on both sides so all may have perspective. My opinions are my own, and are stated as an exercise in business thinking. I think it's wrong when others cheat like this Chinese company has and effectively stolen the work of another company (remember, if my car hadn't come with an AccessPort, I would have bought a Tactrix cable). It puts undue pressure on them to continue to compete in a now unfair market. I only seek to exercise our brains in the process of what could they do now that they're faced with this, largely because I'm interested in what others think on the subject.

Thank you for entertaining me!

[Drew]

This is all in fun, so with so much unknown, I was playing devil's advocate, but using actual experience to make assumptions.

Therefore, we cannot make the argument of "would you buy a Chinese made product that is not equivalent." We do not know if it is yet or not.

I'm making the argument on the assumption, for the sake of argument, that it is equivalent or at least near enough to be largely functional compared to the OEM part.

This is where I was questioning your assumption that this will be the same. Off-shoring on this scale rarely meet the same quality standards, and more often than not, do not even meet IPC Class 1 standard for PCBA fabrication, much less Class 2. Until I am shown that these are equivalent, I will base my initial assumption on the multitude of samples that I have seen in the past, where estimating over 95% were not equivalent in quality, and over 60% not being functional equivalent at all.

Think about the computer you're probably responding to my posts on.

Poor example, as I am on my $6400 T3500 Dual 3.5ghz 6 core Xeon processor work station that has every PCBA in the entire thing built to IPC Class 2 standards, that the company correspondingly had to pay over $6000 for. :D.

But I know what you mean. I guess Avenger can fill in the blanks when his part arrives.

[netracerx]

I think we're assuming this is "stolen" versus "reverse engineered" and also assuming the build quality is not on par with Tactrix' build quality. These two statements may well be true, but since we do not know for sure that anything more than the Tactrix name on the device was stolen we cannot say the entire device's internals and functionality were stolen. It is obvious that they intend to ride the curttails of Tactrix' success by applying their name to not their product, though. BUT... refusing to budge on the basis of the object being wholesale stolen when we do not know this for sure in its entirety is also insane.

I've seen the same happen in the VW-Audi forums when the VAG-Clones were getting popular. They were part-for-part the same as the cables sold by the developer of VAG-COM and the software reverse engineered from the original VAG-COM cables (keep in mind, reverse engineered but not stolen wholesale) to the point that the software written for the original cables saw no difference from the clones. Even if China enforced copyright laws, as I understand it since the cables were not wholesale copies of the original VAG-COM would have a very hard time pursuing a cessation of sale.

Also, to two of the last points: IF it were me in this position (counterfeit versus legitimate) and price were the sway point, I'd probably still go with the legitimate if the price were around $130 or less AND I knew beforehand the other option was counterfeit. To me, where it's made is less of an issue than how well it's made and how well it works. Also, $100 being a linch pin in your build is ridiculous. But $100 saved is still $100 saved, that's all I'm trying to point out there.

And I may have my metaphors mixed up when I used olive branch, but it was the closest to the intent of my sentence. I'm not suggesting you're at war with the community, I'm suggesting that you may be at a tipping point in your sales. Keywords: MAY BE. You may not, and this may only be a bump in the road for you.

MikeyPSF, I don't know you in person so I cannot make judgment calls on your character and will not do so. I will say that it does sound like you're a mite defensive over the ethics/morality of the item in question existing, and said ethics/morality of someone purchasing one of such item. I understand, though, you're arguing from your business' standpoint in defending the decision to purchase original, legitimate items (with which I have no issue). I would hope, though, to see from a prospective vendor to me a willingness to be a bit more objective and not see the message of "we're in ur base stealin ur profitz." That's not my intent, ever, in these posts. I'm engaging in objective discussion, that's all. I have no doubt in my mind that what Tactrix chooses to do as a company the community will back. I've seen more people vouch for Tactrix-based flashing over Accessport-based tuning, so you're doing something right.

[MikeyPSF]

It may end up being the equivalent of a functional Chinese Apple knockoff cable, or it may be so fraught with defects it fries the car at the first powerup of the device. We don't know yet.

That's just my point. You do know. This isn't just a physical thing that can't violate copyrights on it's own, like a knock off iPhone cable that could work with your iPhone, and could have been made by observing an Apple brand cable without getting confidential information on how to make that item. This cloned OpenPort is being shipped with our software. That's the obvious point of distinction.


I think we're assuming this is "stolen" versus "reverse engineered" and also assuming the build quality is not on par with Tactrix' build quality. These two statements may well be true, but since we do not know for sure that anything more than the Tactrix name on the device was stolen we cannot say the entire device's internals and functionality were stolen. It is obvious that they intend to ride the curttails of Tactrix' success by applying their name to not their product, though. BUT... refusing to budge on the basis of the object being wholesale stolen when we do not know this for sure in its entirety is also insane.

From examining one of the units which we have on hand in our office, I can tell you that it contains stolen firmware, not just something that was reverse engineered to figure out what ours does and then replicate that process by inventing a new means to do that. If it were the case that someone made something equivalent by observing what ours does, I wouldn't be posting anything. I can't tell you how we know that it's also using our firmware because it would clue counterfeiters in to what they're doing wrong, but since users of this hardware, which is obviously not ours, will be agreeing to the EcuFlash terms of service which state that it's only intended to be used with hardware sold by the company making said software, that's really all that needs to be shown. Even if the hardware/firmware was produced by 'reverse engineering' (which it wasn't) it would still be a violation to use our software.


MikeyPSF, I don't know you in person so I cannot make judgment calls on your character and will not do so. I will say that it does sound like you're a mite defensive over the ethics/morality of the item in question existing, and said ethics/morality of someone purchasing one of such item.

Pardon me for being defensive as a Chinese counterfeiter attempts to sink our company by using our own software, hardware, firmware, and company name. You're right, I should try harder to focus on how lowering our price will help.


I would hope, though, to see from a prospective vendor to me a willingness to be a bit more objective and not see the message of "we're in ur base stealin ur profitz." That's not my intent, ever, in these posts. I'm engaging in objective discussion, that's all.

I see that you keep saying you're engaging in 'objective discussion' but your comments really don't read that way. I never said "we're in ur base stealin ur profitz." or "either buy our products or suffer" which, when you put those statements out there, even if you aren't claiming we said those exact things, you're characterizing the points I'm making, which isn't objective. To me, the majority of your words don't read as objective so much as the two main points of "this needs to be investigated more before we can say what is wrong here" and "Tactrix should adjust how they do business to accommodate for this new reality". I'm not trying to start an internet battle with you, but there is very little in your 'objective discussion' that discusses points other than those two lines of thinking.


I have no doubt in my mind that what Tactrix chooses to do as a company the community will back.

I'd probably still go with the legitimate if the price were around $130

So you're confident that nobody else will purchase a counterfeit unit and you're right there with them if the price drops $39? Thanks for your support :)

[Drew]

I think we're assuming this is "stolen" versus "reverse engineered"

And you differentiate between these two how? When someone else owns the intellectual property of something you are stealing OR reverse engineering, and you build it, you are STEALING the intellectual property, and violating copyright laws. How is this a point of contention? If this company was in the United States, Tactrix could file an immediate cease and desist, and have them shut down. If someone in the United States had the bright idea to buy these, and start selling them, they would absolutely be hit with the same legal action. Even if Tactrix name wasn't on it, and they called it Chingachong 12000, it is a clear theft of intellectual property. Coming from a career engineer, don't lead yourself to believe that reverse engineering and building something that has protected IP is less illegal than stealing it. It is the exact same thing.

BUT... refusing to budge on the basis of the object being wholesale stolen when we do not know this for sure in its entirety is also insane.

Let's agree to disagree, because you seem to be the only one that does not know the IP, firmware, and even the name was clearly stolen. It's absolutely insane to me that you can logically rationalize any other way this was created, and deem it legitimate.

[netracerx]

@Drew: Without third-party verification of the device's internals, that's how I'm basing my statement of the device not being known whether it is actually stolen or reverse engineered. Using the previously given example of an Apple charge cable for your phone, the manufacturer doesn't need to know how Apple makes them in order to make a copy. Even something like an aftermarket boost control solenoid could be part compatible with an OEM version, but isn't infringing. Yes, I'm saying that taking the word of someone who works for Tactrix the knockoff isn't a wholesale copy isn't enough for me. Especially when it can't be proven but by words it's stolen in whole. But I even stated they stole the name. I recognized that much from reading the posts.

Either way, the debate is turning nasty and I'm apparently not debate-team material as I'm not making myself clear enough on points to be understood nor am I structuring my arguments well. I only sought to engage in a friendly debate over the legitimacy, in part or whole, of the device.

I'm not saying "go buy one, eff Tactrix." Personally, as I've said, I'd have bought one if I didn't already have an AccessPort as part of my vehicle purchase. And I've seen testimonials to how extensive and exhaustive the EcuFlash software is compared to AccessTuner RACE.

I'm done, and retreating back to the dark recesses of the net.

[Drew]

I'm done, and retreating back to the dark recesses of the net.

By all means, please do not do that. We welcome all opinions and members here, and I apologize if I came off abrasive. Don't take my disagreement with your point of view as me saying that you are a monster:D. I have just seen first hand what theft of IP can do to an upstart, and it really is sad and discouraging. Some companies that have had their IP stolen by other US companies still go bankrupt after all of the stress and financial burden that comes with the litigation to reclaim what you own in the first place.

And I understand you are just playing Devil's advocate, so again, I don't want you to think I am chastising you. And as far as the AP goes, I would highly recommend you sell that puppy, and buy a Tactrix (new or used, to show I don't own stock in Tactrix:D). After the transaction, you will have more freedom in tuning AND some extra money in your pocket....

[Chaz17]

I'm not reading through all of these novels.

Buy the Chinese knock off. When it falls apart the second time you use it, or the undeniably shoddy workmanship leads to the cord failing during a flash process (and can therefore BRICK. YOUR. ECU.), let us all know.

That way I can scream "I told you so" while you spend even more than the price of a (relatively cheap) real tactrix cable. You know how much it costs to unbrick your ECU? Not to mention having to remove the thing and then watch your car be a driveway ornament for a few days to a few weeks...

I've had my tactrix cable for over a year now. My friend who had it before me had it for a couple years too. I bunch it up and throw it in the glove compartment. Take it out, use it, bunch it back up and toss it back in under my Garmin and owner's manual. It then sits there for weeks to months.

It's never once given me even a hint of an issue.

At the end of the day, I'll spend the extra $100 for something referred to as "peace of mind". Not even taking into consideration supporting vendors who actually innovate for our platforms..

Oh and by the way, I'm a broke college student. I'm the king of budget performance, but I won't sacrifice quality and integrity just for a cheap "might-work" mod....

[AVENGER]

I'm not reading through all of these novels.

Buy the Chinese knock off. When it falls apart the second time you use it, or the undeniably shoddy workmanship leads to the cord failing during a flash process (and can therefore BRICK. YOUR. ECU.), let us all know.

"That way I can scream "I told you so while you spend even more than the price of a (relatively cheap) real tactrix cable. You know how much it costs to unbrick your ECU? Not to mention having to remove the thing and then watch your car be a driveway ornament for a few days to a few weeks...

I've had my tactrix cable for over a year now. My friend who had it before me had it for a couple years too. I bunch it up and throw it in the glove compartment. Take it out, use it, bunch it back up and toss it back in under my Garmin and owner's manual. It then sits there for weeks to months.

It's never once given me even a hint of an issue.

At the end of the day, I'll spend the extra $100 for something referred to as "peace of mind". Not even taking into consideration supporting vendors who actually innovate for our platforms..

Oh and by the way, I'm a broke college student. I'm the king of budget performance, but I won't sacrifice quality and integrity just for a cheap "might-work" mod....

Don't worry Chaz,,, I'm not even gonna give you the opportunity to scream I told you so, because I won't be reporting on ANY of my findings with the unit, nor will I even bring it up again. If you read back from the beginning of this entire thread, you'll find that I had already ordered it. So unfortunately my friend you didn't "told me SO"... In fact hardly ANYONE chimed in on this until they saw a representative from Tactrix weigh in on this. In fact,,, his first post was the first day he registered on this forum.

So I don't plan on rubbing any of this in his face, or going down this loooong drawn out beating of a dead horse.
If I fuck up my ECU,,,, I'll deal with it..

[zeRep85]

"Friends don't let friends buy Rotas"


zeRep

[Markspd6]

Did we ever get any updates on how the knockoff was working?

[AllWhiteErythng]

I'll probably get banned for sharing this...but oh well.

I ordered using the same link as the OP and received the device about 3 weeks later.

With the device I was able to read my stock rom, flash a GST basemap and clear DTC all with no issues. The device included (on a disc) ECUflash, and several other Subaru/Toyota specific applications.

I did open up the plastic cover and was horrified to see the quality of the solder joints. Most of them were cold joints with bunches of extra solder globbed on. This poor quality could easily lead to broken joints and possibly a bricked ECU. Since this device is always in use if logging, the risk over time only increases. I will be throwing this device in the trash and ordering a real unit for any further logging/flashing.

In the end with all things considered here is the lesson: Don't risk using one of these cheap devices to save $100, spend the extra money and support the people who actually designed the device. Although my experience turned out OK, the poor quality of the device highlights the risk involved in using knockoffs.

[netracerx]

I'd say see if Drew would be interested in getting his hands on it to do a proper teardown and analysis, since he's stated he's experienced with this sort of thing. getting pictures and a blow-by-blow analysis would be very interesting.

[Drew]

I'd say see if Drew would be interested in getting his hands on it to do a proper teardown and analysis, since he's stated he's experienced with this sort of thing. getting pictures and a blow-by-blow analysis would be very interesting.

I do work for a CM, and we build hundreds of thousands of PCBAs a year. I would be completely willing to inspect per IPC guidelines, and give a report on one. But I do know almost certainly exactly how it would turn out, as I have seen this type of thing happen several times over the last 15 years I have been here. That is why I suppose I got so defensive before. It wasn't because I own stock in Tactrix, but because people are playing a VERY dangerous game with that thing. Honest truth, if it was a Chinese knock-off of a wideband O2, or boost gauge, or anything else that couldn't do major damage from failure, I wouldn't care. This thing isn't in that category. Bricking your ECU is probably the cheapest damage it could cause. You can unbrick (software failure). It's not so easy to unfry (hardware failure/IC damage).



I'll probably get banned for sharing this...but oh well.


If you ever get banned from here for posting useful information, then there is a problem with this forum. We should all agree that the more information that we have, the better off we are. I wouldn't personally buy one of those things because of the potential damage it could cause, but I wouldn't look down on anyone else for doing it. All I am trying to do in this thread is to make sure everyone understands the risks vs benefits, and your post was very helpful in doing that.

[echo4papa]

Well, if nothing else, this thread got me to finally break down and order a Tactrix cable last night. :)

I've had the AMS boost pill sitting around for a long time, so I'm kind of eager to finally install and flash the proper base map.

[Markspd6]

Yeah, good update, and I have a hard time believing anyone here will ever get banned for posting information like this. It's useless to operate a forum that way, I'm very curious about this product, but had a fairly good idea of what it was even without buying one.. It's a risky enough procedure even with the brand name version, using a cheaper copy, just seems way too risky, especially when you add up the money that gets thrown at a turbo car in general..

[dirtydirt505]

Thank you guys for your input. I always find it all useful and helpful. It helps us all out in the long run and especially for me. This is my first turbo car. So keep it up guys. And again thank you!!

[echo4papa]

Well, Central Florida RA's are about to have another Tactrix cable in the area. It's out for delivery!

[Macky]

If you ever get banned from here for posting useful information, then there is a problem with this forum. We should all agree that the more information that we have, the better off we are. I wouldn't personally buy one of those things because of the potential damage it could cause, but I wouldn't look down on anyone else for doing it. All I am trying to do in this thread is to make sure everyone understands the risks vs benefits, and your post was very helpful in doing that.

+1

I don't see anything wrong with that. if anything, I was curious to see what the inside looked like if you haven't thrown it away.

[iralli_iskustvo]

Well, if nothing else, this thread got me to finally break down and order a Tactrix cable last night. :)

I've had the AMS boost pill sitting around for a long time, so I'm kind of eager to finally install and flash the proper base map.

Get COBB 3 port and unleash the beast!

[AVENGER]

If anyone is interested... I had received the knock-off Tactrix 2.0.
I successfully backed up my stock rom and flashed the GST V.3 basemap 93 oct stock everything onto my ecu.
However,,,, this Saturday I will be having my Tomioka Racing test pipe and my OBX catback exhaust installed. Once I get home and the car cools down, I will be installing the AMS boost pill.
After "said tasks" are completed,,,,, You will all be happy to know I will be reeeee-flashing my ecu using A,,,, genuine Tactrix 2.0 unit that I purchased directly from Tactrix Inc...

Just for the record though,,,,,,, it DID come with a USB cable that was made in China though... LOL!

[Mivec20]

What are people doing for 2015 RA basemaps?

[echo4papa]

What are people doing for 2015 RA basemaps?

I haven't seen word for the 2015's yet, but I know the 2014 is the same as the 2013, so cross your fingers and hope that's the case for the 2015 as well?

[echo4papa]

Mivec, do you have access to a Tactrix cable, or are you asking to figure out if you want to buy one?