AMS TBE + AEM intake + GST Map?

[rm_you]

I have a 2011 Ralliart and I'm looking at buying the following parts:

From AMS:
AMS Mitsubishi Ralliart Twin Tip Cat-Back Exhaust (with high flow cat option)
AMS 09+ Lancer Ralliart Small Battery kit (isn't really relevant I guess) <--- Edit: cutting this, don't see the point right now
AMS 2009+ Lancer Ralliart FMIC & Upper Intercooler Pipe Combo
AMS Boost Pill for Evo X and RalliArt with SST Transmission (edit: confirmed the same as the GST Pill)

From AEM:
2011 MITSUBISHI Lancer Evolution 2.0L L4 F/I - All (Cold Air Intake)

And then using the "Stock RA + BoostPill upgrade + TBE + AEM Intake" map provided by GST here (it looks like they do excellent work):
http://forums.evolutionm.net/09-rall...t-basemap.html

My question is, should those parts work with that map? AFAIK, the only part where a different brand affects the map significantly is the intake, which is why I'm looking at the AEM intake instead of the AMS version... Is that right, or am I completely off base? I'm basing that from what I read here: http://forums.evolutionm.net/09-rall...ap-thread.html and the fact that while Bryan specifies a particular intake brand, he doesn't specify anything about the TBE.

I'm very new to this and am having friends help me with the installation (I want to really *do* this, not just pay to have it done for me). I am still very interested in learning, and I am thinking that from what I have seen here already, you guys could be an excellent resource.

I'm not particularly worried about getting the parts on, just how the map will perform (and whether it is possible to do any long-term damage while doing initial testing/logging). I assume at some point I should go get a real pro-tune, but I am hoping this will work in the meantime.

I would just get the AMS intake and use the map *they* provide for "stage 2", except they want $450 just to email me the map file (this seems a bit ridiculous to me after seeing most maps sell for $50-100 or come with actual flashing hardware like the Cobb AccessPort, which I own). Am I wrong about the price being a bit steep? I've seen the question asked before on these forums and the general opinion seemed to be "go with a GST map", which is why I am making this post to begin with. Also, I figure I can just bank that $450 and it will pay for a whole lot of the pro-tune I do eventually get, or I can donate some of it to GST for providing a good map and not trying to rip me off in the process.

[crak]

for the TBE part (Turbo Back Exhaust) You need more then just the Catalytic Back Exhaust system. Turbo Back means exactly that, everything from the turbo and back.

you need a Down Pipe coming off the turbo and a test pipe or resonated test pipe or a high flow catalytic pipe. So DP>TP>CAT-BACK = TBE

Also, why do you think you need a battery kit?

[rm_you]

Originally Posted by crak

for the TBE part (Turbo Back Exhaust) You need more then just the Catalytic Back Exhaust system. Turbo Back means exactly that, everything from the turbo and back.

you need a Down Pipe coming off the turbo and a test pipe or resonated test pipe or a high flow catalytic pipe. So DP>TP>CAT-BACK = TBE

Note that the Cat-back system I listed *also* comes with the high flow cat. I wasn't aware I needed yet another part for the TBE, thought it was just the catback + HFC. As usual, correct me if I misunderstand.

Edit: The list of parts I have came primarily from the Stage Kits on AMS and from one of my friends calling them and asking them a ton of questions, one of which was "Will the stage1+2 kits yield the full TBE or just CBE?" to which they responded that it *was* a full TBE system... So if they are screwing with me, I'd like to know.

Edit 2: From the GST basemap post, this is at the top:

Originally Posted by GST Map Thread

Stock RA + BoostPill upgrade + TBE:= BoostPill Upgrade and a Turbo Back Exhaust system which means a high flow cat (or test pipe) plus a catback. A downpipe upgrade is ok but is not necessary. People that ONLY have catbacks should use the Stock RA + BoostPill upgrade BaseMap.

Stock RA + BoostPill upgrade + TBE + AEM Intake:= BoostPill Upgrade and a Turbo Back Exhaust system plus an AEM intake. This means the AEM intake for the Ralliart ONLY. No other full intakes will work correctly with this base map!

That leads me to believe that I am ok with just the catback and HFC for the TBE map (plus the AEM intake, obviously).

Originally Posted by crak

Also, why do you think you need a battery kit?

Like I said, I didn't think the small battery kit was relevant, but I included it since it is in my parts list. Also, this is copy/pasted from the AMS order sheet as it was sent to me (back when I was going to do the intake from AMS as well):

"1 Intake With bungs AMS 09+ Lancer Ralliart Short ram intake POLISHED WITH BREATHER BUNGS ***AMS SMALL BATTERY KIT REQUIRED FOR INSTALLATION AND ALSO A BASE FLASH**"

Maybe it has to do with a space issue? Though I don't quite get why, since the battery doesn't look like it's in a location that would be used by the new intake, but again I could be wrong (I don't necessarily trust my own judgement yet here). Originally I was just doing AMS Stage 1 + Stage 2 (they have premade kits) but the pricing is a bit wonky so I had them split it into components.

If there is *really* no reason for me to do the small battery kit (I mean, it does shave off quite a bit of weight) then I will just cut it out of my order. Let me know what you think.

Anyway, thanks for the reply!

[crak]

Cutting out a battery to lower weight wont give you more hp:/

The best thing to do is to worry about weight after all the power upgrades are installed. Thats when you start shaving weight off to increase times. But its your call, im sure the battery will look cool!

As AMS said you need the battery......I could be wrong, but why would you need a battery with more amps? Its just to start your car anyways......maybe do more research on it as to why.

Yeah witht he HFC and the cat-back you will be find with the TBE.

I am saying maybe look into a downpipe that has a wide enough bore for the rest of your exhaust. I dont know how wide the bore is on the upgrade exhaust your about to get:/

But all in all good luck! sounds like a great system!

[razorlab]

Yes the "Stock RA + BoostPill upgrade + TBE + AEM Intake" will work fine with catback + HFC like you are getting.

The battery kit. Just buy the AMS mini battery tie down for $49:

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/a...tray-only.html

Then buy the same battery AMS uses, the Hawker Genesis G12V16Ah10EP for $107:

http://www.portablepower.com/genesis...0ep-p-210.html

Save yourself about $60

[rm_you]

Thanks Bryan! Yet more proof that you are an asset to the community (and an awesome guy to boot)! Just out of curiosity, what parts did you use for the TBE system in your test car(s)? And is there any reason I shouldn't just order parts from *you*? At least it'd be a small way of supporting your work!

Also, I'm beginning to think AMS is a bit shady. Or at least, they aren't nearly as dedicated to helping their customers get what they need as some other shops (like GST). Multiple phone conversations, a ton of research on *my part* to get THEIR pricing straightened out, and they want $450 just to email me a copy of their pre-made map... Maybe AMS is shady, or maybe Bryan@GST is just spoiling us. :P

Originally Posted by crak

Cutting out a battery to lower weight wont give you more hp:/

The best thing to do is to worry about weight after all the power upgrades are installed. Thats when you start shaving weight off to increase times.

Good advice. I'll keep that in mind. I'm equally confused about why the smaller battery is necessary. I'll probably cut it from my order completely.

Originally Posted by crak

I am saying maybe look into a downpipe that has a wide enough bore for the rest of your exhaust. I dont know how wide the bore is on the upgrade exhaust your about to get:/

Yeah, from what I can tell, upgrading it won't make much of a difference. Especially this useful post: http://forums.evolutionm.net/09-rall...g-your-ra.html

He mentions:

Originally Posted by Exyia

Downpipe upgrades are more complicated to install and net very little gains for the Ralliart. Why is that?

Remember that all these systems are there to function WITH the turbocharger. The factory Ralliart turbocharger is VERY small and has limited flow capacity. Sure, upgrading the whole exhaust system will flow more air, but the stock RA turbo can only flow so much. the factory downpipe doesn't restrict much flow compared to the output that the RA turbo is capable of.

Originally Posted by crak

But all in all good luck! sounds like a great system!

Thanks, looking forward to getting all this stuff figured out and actually ordering the parts and putting them on!

[razorlab]

Originally Posted by rm_you

Thanks Bryan! Yet more proof that you are an asset to the community (and an awesome guy to boot)! Just out of curiosity, what parts did you use for the TBE system in your test car(s)? And is there any reason I shouldn't just order parts from *you*? At least it'd be a small way of supporting your work!

I don't sell parts. We put these basemaps out (Richard and I) because we like giving back to the community.

Exhaust is basically an exhaust when it comes to the base maps, as long as it's larger then stock and flows decently, it should work just fine.

Originally Posted by rm_you

Also, I'm beginning to think AMS is a bit shady. Or at least, they aren't nearly as dedicated to helping their customers get what they need as some other shops (like GST). Multiple phone conversations, a ton of research on *my part* to get THEIR pricing straightened out, and they want $450 just to email me a copy of their pre-made map... Maybe AMS is shady, or maybe Bryan@GST is just spoiling us. :P

AMS isn't shady, they have done a ton of R&D and innovation over the years, they just operate a business, not a charity, so they charge for their services.

[crak]

@rm_you: The reason I got a UR downpipe was because in the future I will be getting a bigger turbo and install that downpipe is a bitch. So, while i did the exhaust I put it in. I might sell it later and just get the UR long down pipe that connects directly to the O2 waste if i have money to burn.

All up to you!

C

EDIT: Also, the GST map, Richard and I (and currently) think that we completely removed the O2 CEL problem for ever with a test GST basemap. So, with his TBE tunes where you put in a new pipe will now give no more CEL's yay! After a few more tests on my part. It should be good to go for future TBE users getting the rear O2 sensor P0420 problem.

[rm_you]

Originally Posted by bryan@gst

I don't sell parts. We put these basemaps out (Richard and I) because we like giving back to the community.

AMS isn't shady, they have done a ton of R&D and innovation over the years, they just operate a business, not a charity, so they charge for their services.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that they were shady just because they charge for their maps -- I realize not everything in life is free, and your maps are just a really cool bonus.

What I was referring to was that they overcharged me by quite a lot at first on my order (to the tune of $800 or so), and when I made them aware of the issue they "fixed it" but were still charging me more than the prices they had listed on their website by a non-trivial amount... I had to spend quite a while on the phone getting the prices changed to *what they advertised*. Also, they were telling me the small battery kit was a necessary upgrade to work with their intake (unless I'm reading that wrong), which seems a bit sketchy (as discussed above with crak). ALSO also, they advertised their kit as a "full TBE" to my friend on the phone (the one who is advising me on this project) which I'm hearing isn't true unless it includes a downpipe (maybe there is some sort of definition issue here). Maybe their engineering / R&D department is great and just their sales is sketchy...

Anyway, I will probably continue with my plan to purchase the TBE / boostpill / FMIC from them, without the battery, and get the AEM intake as per your map. Then I can donate some to you for your help.

Originally Posted by crak

@rm_you: The reason I got a UR downpipe was because in the future I will be getting a bigger turbo and install that downpipe is a bitch. So, while i did the exhaust I put it in.

Got it, that makes sense. I'll probably be fine with my little turbo for quite a while, as most of my acceleration is low-end anyway.



EDIT: Maybe I am just a dumb newbie, but I do still think charging near as much for a mapfile as for a custom local dyno-tune is a bit excessive. I was expecting *some* sort of discount for just needing the mapfile via email (I already paid for the necessary equipment to flash my ECU), as opposed to sending them my ECU and them flashing it and shipping it back, but it is the exact same price.

[crak]

Originally Posted by rm_you

EDIT: Maybe I am just a dumb newbie, but I do still think charging near as much for a mapfile as for a custom local dyno-tune is a bit excessive. I was expecting *some* sort of discount for just needing the mapfile via email (I already paid for the necessary equipment to flash my ECU), as opposed to sending them my ECU and them flashing it and shipping it back, but it is the exact same price.

Makes sense in my eyes too. But then again when so few can do what many want, you can charge as much as you like. Supply and demands my good sir